shooting through walls/floors

[|uK|fleecey]

I message Sam about this, that you can shoot through the wall/floor on mcswartzly map. If you take over the roof above the core. We all know that pulse is not allowed, but you can still ripper it or shot rockets. In burning you can do the same or bluevember through the slime. Sam told me, this is not allowed, meanwhile Silverwing told me this is allowed.

This is really lame imo and it shouldn't be allowed. I know in the next version or whatever, this is going to be fixed. But someone should make a rule now and say if this is allowed or not allowed. Because there is a lot of people who doing this and since there is one saying this is allowed and one not. I just want to make things clear.

[Higor]

If the map isn't properly built, you can shoot anything thru it, granted.
UT isn't the only BSP based geometry game that suffers from this, badly made HL and CS maps suffer from these issues as well (sliding grenades under rocks and boxes).

If you want to have it fixed, fix the map.
The reason of of the problem in, for example, Burning is that the map maker tried to solve a replication issue, explained below.
- In a network game, client only gets the position of relevant actors, meaning players in entirely different rooms aren't visible, even if the surfaces are translucent.
- In order to prevent this, a 1 unit opening is left on the sides of the window.
- But, if the projectiles collision cylinder is smaller than the actual opening, it will slip through.

I know!, Let's use a 'Mover'.
Movers are visible, movable brush actors that are mostly used for gates and lifts.
These don't block visibility and are see through, but...
A serverside bug allows projectiles to damage objects through movers when running in dedicated server mode.
If a Mover was used as window, a nuker would simply erase the enemy base by firing at the window.

So how can we allow a client player to see through a window and not to damage objects on the other side?
Either we recode the projectiles and explosions or fix the faulty maps one by one.

A proper way to fix maps is to keep the collision hulls, and then block the open sides with an invisible BlockAll actor which serves as cylindric collision.
The BSP collision will prevent projectiles from doing spash damage, and the BlockAll actors will prevent projectiles and bullets from going through the small openings.
An example of BlockAll actor usage is the middle in Orbital, it blocks anything from going through but allows splash damage, as well as buildings can be spawned on them.

A proper way to recode the projectiles and prevent explosions from harming stuff thru doors is to create a variant of the HurtRadius() method and to increase the projectiles's collision size from 0 to 2.
It would be more expensive CPU wise but it will definetely perform better and without exploits.
It would use TraceActors to determine visibility, therefore hitting Movers, and it would allow other things like reducing damage if the target isn't the first thing in the explosion direction making body shielding tactics a factible choice.
The damage determination should be modded to take into account the closest possible point between the explosion center and the actor, otherwise, big objects would still get reduced damage if hit wrongly.
An example of a bad hit is firing a shock alt to a Titan's head, it will do little to no damage due to the old method.
Another thing that this solves, is that glitched Super Containers will receive damage from explosions (this and my fix for the invisibility would make SC glitching useless)

As final word, since we're reducing the iteration and trace count on some other objects, I believe that working on both methods should be considered.

[Higor]

Explosion recode here:
http://www.ut99.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4072

- Harms glitched SC's or misplaced ForceFields (visible thru walls) upon direct impact.
- Prevents leeching through gates and lifts.
- Buildings can reduce explosion damage, making good nuke/rocket shields, this is adjustable.
- Reduces efficiency of Supplier spamming, if there is a container or forcefield protecting it.
- Boosting players might require less rockets due to feet hits deal same damage as stomach hits (bug solved), max boost isn't increased due to a fixed terminal velocity so no worries.

Since it needs to be coded into each projectile, one can choose whether to use it or not (not using it on BioRifle gel to keep leech games for example).

EDIT, Since it would only need to replace projectiles, it could be tested as a mutator first, replacing rockets with modified ones.

[Vatiko//]

^dude, you amaze me everytime . :)

[SilverWing]

Like i said before... The map is built like that... no one is abusing a bug or shoting throw walls or floors... they r shooting threw a gap in between texture to allow the projectile to hit something... NOTHING IS GOING PAST WALLS OR FLOORS

[|uK|kenneth]

Like i said before... The map is built like that... no one is abusing a bug or shoting throw walls or floors... they r shooting threw a gap in between texture to allow the projectile to hit something... NOTHING IS GOING PAST WALLS OR FLOORS

thats what i thought the map is made to do it.

[kron]

In my opinion that little glitch thing SHOULD be allowed.
My reasoning is because that is a strategy that everyone uses to try and win the game. It's just like getting the very top on bluevember. There are ways to prevent it and there are ways to get into it. If you get up there you win, it's a good thing to have. All maps should have that kind of risk of losing or winning in a matter of seconds. It really adds to suspense.

[SAM]

Ok. If the map is built that way then it is allowed however if the map has a bug like clarion and blackriver for example where you can shoot through the wall to hit the core, then that is not allowed (should be fixed next release credits to feralidragon / xXx)

Take for example bluevember. You can get up top and shoot the core from there. So taking ylthr small space above mcswartzly and shooting from above there is essentially the same concept.

--- Updated ---

Didn't see kron's example before I posted but he's on the same page. These 'deciders' should always exist for siege maps as long as the opposing team does not have an advantage or disadvantage then the playing ground is fair.

It is up to you an your team mates to know the maps well and learn how to best protect vulnerable spots to succeed. That's the beauty of siege. Working together towards a common goal, filling gaps and holes where necessary in order to do so.

[HIGH[+]AdRiaN]

it happens on bluevember's nuke room too, if someone get enemy nuke room and make sm at tele, they can destroy the sm with toxin suit and pulse on floor under the core =/

[Moskva]

AdRiaN;32482']it happens on bluevember's nuke room too, if someone get enemy nuke room and make sm at tele, they can destroy the sm with toxin suit and pulse on floor under the core =/

Thats bannable dood... fact that you dont report is not our fault

[SAM]

Pulse through Walls will be fixed in next release for now you should report it.

[HIGH[+]AdRiaN]

all players that dont read the forum dont know if it is or not allowed, all time that i made this tele in bluevember was not 1 or 2 players who used pulse for kill the sm, but 5, 6... huasuieh

they dont know about this, i think it would be nice put a message informing this on server, like: repair teamates... say !admin <> for... it's a pro siege server, dont cry if...


EDIT: lol it's about pug, then i have never seen pulse/ripper at walls in PUG, just happened on public server

[|uK|kenneth]

idd adrian is right most people dont know this. so I may have a solution for that on wildcards server uhm he let something spam every 20 min or something idk like this > "ban of this week banny has been banned for boosting people" you could put > " pulse gunning through walls is not allowed anymore"

[Moko]

while we are talking about this Koos was pulsing in blackriver and he removed some1 else's ff, I told Rays but I figured I should post here too in case he forgets. :)

[|uK|Grimreaper]

in coret you can shoot trough the glasses to its just how its constructed..
try it out go stand in front of a glass or above it and shoot trough the sides.. you will see ur shot on the wall on the other side

[TDNConvict]

In my opinion that little glitch thing SHOULD be allowed.
My reasoning is because that is a strategy that everyone uses to try and win the game. It's just like getting the very top on bluevember. There are ways to prevent it and there are ways to get into it. If you get up there you win, it's a good thing to have. All maps should have that kind of risk of losing or winning in a matter of seconds. It really adds to suspense.

leave it to kron to want the gayest way to win possible

and its nothing like getting to the top of vember... at least there u can nuke it.. its virtually impossible to kill tele above mcshitty

[SilverWing]

leave it to kron to want the gayest way to win possible

and its nothing like getting to the top of vember... at least there u can nuke it.. its virtually impossible to kill tele above mcshitty

and its not impossible to defend that area... it cost ur team 1250 (2 teles and jumpboots) just to make take the top and it cost the enemy team 2000-3000(2 teles, trans, invis, shieldbelt, +upgrades) to take enemies bases... if u cant defend something that is so easy to protect then u must be retarded

[|uK|kenneth]

and its not impossible to defend that area... it cost ur team 1250 (2 teles and jumpboots) just to make take the top and it cost the enemy team 2000-3000(2 teles, trans, invis, shieldbelt, +upgrades) to take enemies bases... if u cant defend something that is so easy to protect then u must be retarded

uhu the thing is i never seen someone using boots to get the top only me freeze and grim are probably then only 3 doing it.
and btw i can do it also on the enemie team ive done this before, just boots + belt and gogogo.

['Zac]

i noticed that on the uK orbital map in the middle with the opening, you can easily flack through it without a problem. some guy shot me with it through it and i tested it out and you can.

[nOs*Wildcard]

idd adrian is right most people dont know this. so I may have a solution for that on wildcards server uhm he let something spam every 20 min or something idk like this > "ban of this week banny has been banned for boosting people" you could put > " pulse gunning through walls is not allowed anymore"
It's nothing special it's justthe ServerAdds mod however I edited it so I can add new update and remove messages in game with mutate commands instead of editing a list of messages stored in an .ini file then shutting down the server uploading the new messages and rebooting the server. Only difference with mine thou it it does not have the large instrusive white text in the center of the screen. It is lame seeing players pry at any little advantage they get regardless of how lame it is. Well, I would edit the maps I suppose even thou that solution requires work lol. I'm thinking maby I could make some kind of block like higor was talking about except having the player have some kind of invisible armor all the time that does tracebacks to the source of damage and checks to see if such a block is in the path first and if so modify the damage to zero of coarse and remove the momentum and maby it will be like it never happend. I could implement a similar system like that in SiegeXtreme 3. I do like being able to hide behind buildings and not get hurt. Right now I'm working on Platforms that you can crouth on and walk on the edge and piston off of, might as well experiment a little :|

[|uK|kenneth]

however you do it:p i like it now youre aware of it.