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Deepack
07-21-2012, 08:11 PM
Is there a noticeable difference (performance-wise) between CRTs and LCD monitors? I've heard that most basic LCD monitors have refresh rates at 60hz,75hz, or 85hz max. But CRTs can go over 120 hz. Right now I'm using a normal LCD monitor with 1600 x 1200 resolution and @ 75 hz but when I play on my friends computer with his CRT monitor, his UT is more than 5x smoother and way easier to aim than mine even though my PC and graphic card are over 3x better than his. Is there something I'm doing wrong or are CRTs just generally better than basic LCDs for gaming?

SAM
07-21-2012, 08:40 PM
Problem with LCD monitors is that LCD is designed for a native resolution. If you change the resolution on an LCD screen, the image will be scaled and the quality won’t be as good as with the native resolution.

When it comes to FPS, CRT is much better than LCD. LCD is junk and the responsiveness is slow. Even at 2ms, an LCD does comes nowhere near a CRT and has too much latency. If you go from CRT to LCD or LCD to CRT you will see what I mean.

Oh and CRTs last way longer than LCD. btw, aren't LCD old fashioned now though? Don't most people have LED now?

--- Updated ---

btw I'm not a nerd. Nerd

Deepack
07-21-2012, 08:45 PM
Possibly. That's why I've noticed playing on CRTs @ at even 75 hz looks and feels much better than a LCD and the mouse response is much faster. Only thing is a CRT monitor does not suit my desktop at all and it's too heavy. A good pc, keyboard, mouse, and a CRT monitor lol worst combination. What about gaming LCDs with 120 hz is that as good or better than CRTs?

|uK|B|aZe//.
07-21-2012, 08:48 PM
does it matter you will still be shit regardless

SAM
07-21-2012, 08:50 PM
In a nutshell, LCD will never be as good as a CRT, period.

Deepack
07-21-2012, 08:58 PM
lololol blaze, that's exactly the kind of thing I predicted you were gonna say. Only god judges others little one. But seriouly I just said hi to you on chat and you told me to f*ck off -_- wth was that about ol?

633

This is the face of Blaze during our scrim. Unrealshots and SW did a good job to keep a smile on Blaze's face because if they had not done a good job well it'll make me sad seeing a pic like that without a smile. When Blaze's happy we all are. Remember a smile like that only comes once in a life time and you have to embrace it. pzz out

|uK|Rays
07-21-2012, 09:06 PM
If you care that much get a 120hz monitor. Heard good things about them from other UT players.

SAM
07-21-2012, 09:06 PM
Only god judges others little one.


ok 2pac

Deepack
07-21-2012, 09:10 PM
If you care that much get a 120hz monitor. Heard good things about them from other UT players.

LCDs with 120hz are kinda expensive but I'm still thinking of buying one.

.seVered.][
07-21-2012, 09:11 PM
You probably have different Display adapters in each computer? Refresh rate and screen resolution have a tremendous impact on performance... but these settings are configured IN THE GAME but can be impacted( or restricted) by windows settings. Check the manual, read the book, and watch the video. *wink

Manual (for the monitor), BOOK (for the Tweaking your video card) and VIDEO for checking the performance.

Deepack
07-21-2012, 09:24 PM
well I know every thing on tweaking graphics, windows settings, etc. But with LCDs you can't do much if your monitors only supports 75 hz even installing the drivers for the monitor won't really help. Although I prefer 75 hz over 60 hz there is a slight noticeable difference in performance between them. I've even heard of programs like refreshforce and refreshlock which can force a higher refresh rate on your monitor but I doubt it works. btw does any one here use 120 hz monitors?

.seVered.][
07-21-2012, 09:30 PM
But there are many more settings for the display adapter in control panel for your adapter. If your drivers are installed correctly you should be able to adjuste these settings too... BUT MOSTLY you can't compare two completely different computers, unless the hardware is IDENTICAL, which is kind of rare these days.

Deepack
07-21-2012, 09:40 PM
Well, I use Geforce GT 530 and I've tweaked all my settings in the nVidia control panel to maximum performance. My friend uses nVidia 8500 GT and his nvidia control panel settings are the same as mine. We both use quad cores except I use an i7 cuz I have a newer model than his. Same mouse, same ini but different binds, almost the same computer desktop. Only difference is that his monitor is a CRT and supports 120hz which makes his overall performance,visuals, and aiming 10x better. Even though most servers without zp are harder to hit but with 120 hz monitors the shots hit more directly especially for sniping, even I can't explain it. On average with an LCD I frag over 240 in comboinstagib but playing with a CRT and the same map my frags are well over 300. No doubt CRTs are still the best.

SAM
07-22-2012, 05:55 AM
It's only a game. No need to spend life savings on it.

|uK|B|aZe//.
07-22-2012, 10:53 AM
i bought a crt once the thing was too big so i swapped it for a razer mamba. that was two years ago and the thing was already 6 years old anyway, it still works

Shotman
07-22-2012, 12:49 PM
It's only a game. No need to spend life savings on it.

i agree with this, i see people spending money on mouses, keyboards, pc parts, and monitors only for a game. When it is a freaking old game like this is just sad.

Deepack
07-22-2012, 01:00 PM
i bought a crt once the thing was too big so i swapped it for a razer mamba. that was two years ago and the thing was already 6 years old anyway, it still works

Damn Blaze, you must be a strong man in order to be carrying around a CRT monitor. That's my boy!

--- Updated ---


i agree with this, i see people spending money on mouses, keyboards, pc parts, and monitors only for a game. When it is a freaking old game like this is just sad.

How's that sad? Billions of people update their hardware,pcs, etc daily just for gaming. You can never enjoy or play at your best if your playing on a shitbox computer with lags and a small resolution that looks like box graphics or using a shit box mouse, it's just gonna piss you off and make you punch your screen when your playing. What's sad is when people work and spend most of their money on buying alcohol and drugs.

SAM
07-22-2012, 01:40 PM
Problem is though. UT ran best on my penguin 2 350mhz 512mb ram and a 4mb ati 3d rage road pro turbo. You can imagine what a graphics car with a name like that did to the games back then.

Sakura
07-22-2012, 03:13 PM
I bought a 120 hz monitor. The gameplay is very smooth. I have an acer and you can find it on newegg.com.

Deepack
07-22-2012, 03:29 PM
yeah 120 hz is a beast. Sakura, did you add this line "refreshrate=120hz" to your opengl/d3d settings. Oh yeah you also need to add the 120 hz registry file from cheesemousefix it makes a huge difference.

This link has the mousefix files; http://vdclan.net/node/18

HIGH[+]AdRiaN
07-22-2012, 03:54 PM
does it matter you will still be shit regardless

kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk lol blaze

____________________________________

CTR owns lol
try play with 800x600 at 80hz and 80 maxframe limit on a CTR monitor and rape
(above 80 does not change anything, the human eye can capture 80 images in one second, some 'superior ones' can capture up a little)

Keith
07-22-2012, 03:55 PM
60 or 80? lol

HIGH[+]AdRiaN
07-22-2012, 03:59 PM
80, set it on windows (you need creat a personal refresh rate configuration using nvidea driver or other software) and on ut.ini

60 is shit, it is possible to see clearly frame by frame

i already used 115, 100 and 95 hz, it's not good, tooo much smooth, bad for reflexives shots

Deepack
07-22-2012, 04:18 PM
I actually think the higher the refresh rate the better. The eye cannot pick up anything over 80 hz but it does not matter because maybe at 120 hz the smoothness, performance and responsiveness of the mouse is probably much better than it was @ 80hz. But I agree playing @ 60 hz is ridiculous and feels like crap. I still don't understand why gaming LCDs that are 120hz are still worst than CRTs even though they have the same refresh rates and are worth more than double the price.

Higor
07-22-2012, 07:10 PM
Depends on the quality of the LCD screen, I've seen shit ones, and very good ones. The only way to know is by testing these out.

I ended up getting a 23" LCD Samsung, which in my opinion is as good (refresh wise) as my old 19" CRT NEC Multisync.
Use a digital connection to get the best out of it, because if you want to connect one of these LCD screens to a VGA plug, then you'll indeed waste money.

D3D Refresh limit? Play on OpenGL.

HIGH[+]AdRiaN
07-22-2012, 11:15 PM
I actually think the higher the refresh rate the better. The eye cannot pick up anything over 80 hz but it does not matter because maybe at 120 hz the smoothness, performance and responsiveness of the mouse is probably much better than it was @ 80hz. But I agree playing @ 60 hz is ridiculous and feels like crap. I still don't understand why gaming LCDs that are 120hz are still worst than CRTs even though they have the same refresh rates and are worth more than double the price.

yes, the refresh rate affects the game performance, but 120 FOR ME is not good... it's good for shoot at the right time, but i can not control perfectly my crosshair if i move it fast with super high hz

for me:

Reflexives/fast shots____________________Shot Time/keep the crosshairs on target
Low Hz................................................ ...............................................Hig h Hz

80 hz is between the aim styles... if you pay attention to me will see that many times i wait for shot, i keep 3 or 4 secs no shoting... a player with high hz always do it auisehase

but im good on reflex/fast shots too (:
many times i kill apes with trans, speed boots... but with 120 hz it's really impossible, beleave!

on the other hand if you play with 60 hz hasueh
you will have very more difficulty for hit an enemy walking straight and do not using dodge LOL

--- Updated ---


Depends on the quality of the LCD screen, I've seen shit ones, and very good ones. The only way to know is by testing these out.

I ended up getting a 23" LCD Samsung, which in my opinion is as good (refresh wise) as my old 19" CRT NEC Multisync.
Use a digital connection to get the best out of it, because if you want to connect one of these LCD screens to a VGA plug, then you'll indeed waste money.

D3D Refresh limit? Play on OpenGL.
High resolution makes the same sansation of low hz
reduces the size of your screen using the monitor menu and look how the game will appear smoother

im using d3d8

Higor
07-22-2012, 11:27 PM
We all get used to certain HZ, my ideal is 85, but playing on 1080p only allows me to go up to 70 on my screen.
An advantage of playing at 85hz is, that if the game starts skipping frames (slowdowns), it will still run at 42.5 fps which is acceptable.

I believe we should all agree that the 60fps cap direct3D 9 has is garbage and ruins the gaming experience and CRT player's eyesight over time.
Deepack, if you get a CRT, make sure you can play over 60fps.

=====
Adrian, I know.
I stick to 1080p due to most long distance maps and stuff, but on competitive matches or DM I switch to a 4:3 1200x900 (DVI lets my screen keep aspect ratio) and 85hz, this combined with ZP is killer.

Edit:
I skipped d3d8 because it takes 10 extra seconds to start the game or change resolution, I guess it's a problem with my ATI drivers or something.

Moskva
07-23-2012, 01:06 AM
A thread just for nerds apparently, has 3 pages already DAYUM

|uK|Rays
07-23-2012, 01:51 AM
I stick to 1080p due to most long distance maps and stuff, but on competitive matches or DM I switch to a 4:3 1200x900 (DVI lets my screen keep aspect ratio) and 85hz, this combined with ZP is killer.

Competitive pub games? You're doing it wrong.
1200x900 does sound pretty gud though.

Deepack
07-23-2012, 02:57 AM
AdRiaN;33971']yes, the refresh rate affects the game performance, but 120 FOR ME is not good... it's good for shoot at the right time, but i can not control perfectly my crosshair if i move it fast with super high hz

for me:

Reflexives/fast shots____________________Shot Time/keep the crosshairs on target
Low Hz................................................ ...............................................Hig h Hz

80 hz is between the aim styles... if you pay attention to me will see that many times i wait for shot, i keep 3 or 4 secs no shoting... a player with high hz always do it auisehase

but im good on reflex/fast shots too (:
many times i kill apes with trans, speed boots... but with 120 hz it's really impossible, beleave!

on the other hand if you play with 60 hz hasueh
you will have very more difficulty for hit an enemy walking straight and do not using dodge LOL[COLOR="Red"]




interesting... The thing about LCDs with high refresh rates is that it's hard to find them in local stores. I've checked online at futureshop, staples, walmart and there are only about 2 of them I found that have 120hz which cost more than $300. Maybe you can only find a better price for them on ebay or other online sites.

--- Updated ---


We all get used to certain HZ, my ideal is 85, but playing on 1080p only allows me to go up to 70 on my screen.
An advantage of playing at 85hz is, that if the game starts skipping frames (slowdowns), it will still run at 42.5 fps which is acceptable.

I believe we should all agree that the 60fps cap direct3D 9 has is garbage and ruins the gaming experience and CRT player's eyesight over time.
Deepack, if you get a CRT, make sure you can play over 60fps.


=====
Adrian, I know.
I stick to 1080p due to most long distance maps and stuff, but on competitive matches or DM I switch to a 4:3 1200x900 (DVI lets my screen keep aspect ratio) and 85hz, this combined with ZP is killer.

Edit:
I skipped d3d8 because it takes 10 extra seconds to start the game or change resolution, I guess it's a problem with my ATI drivers or something.

True, only way I can use 75 hertz is by using a lower resolution on my monitor or else it'll be forced back to 60hz on the highest resolution. btw I'm getting well over 60 frames lol I think that has more to do with your graphics card rather than monitor.

Keith
07-23-2012, 07:31 AM
Thing is, with LCD if you don't use native resolution it looks like shit and creates input lag due to the rescaling... so most of 1080p monitors are stuck to 60hz to look good...

Deepack
07-23-2012, 02:29 PM
wtf, lol I just checked and I found out that I had an old Dell CRT monitor hidden in my closet. It is probably over like 10 years old. I tested it to see if it worked and it still does lol. But I don't understand I tried 120 hz and the screen goes pitch black the highest refresh rate that seems to be working is 85hz except I have to use a lower resolution. I thought all CRTs go to 120 hz. Is there like a plug or cable I'm missing I even tried to change the hz on the nvidia control panel settings and this screen goes blank still.

This is how the monitor looks; 636
I even checked the specs for this monitor and it says it has over 120 hz refresh rate. This doesn't make any sense :S

.seVered.][
07-23-2012, 02:40 PM
Nice, looks like it's one of the old flat screen CRT's... Probably won't find the Windows drivers for it, but look on the back and write down the Model Number on the MFG label. NOT the one on the front (sometimes it is right on the front though). Finding the right drivers for these can be tricky. spend LOTS of time at the http://support.dell.com (being a registered member of the site REALLY helps).

Change the resolution and refresh rates in UT not WINDOWS.. if you don't know it's in the Unrealtournament.ini file under the video renderending section you are using. (D3D or OpenGL or what not.) Good luck.

Keith
07-23-2012, 05:17 PM
120hz can work at 640x480

Deepack
07-24-2012, 01:48 PM
120hz can work at 640x480

Tried it and still says sync out of range. I think it's cause I have to find the right drivers which is almost going to be impossible.

Cent
07-25-2012, 02:39 AM
Some old CRT monitors are garbage and wont go over 85 hz. Look on the back of the monitor and find out what you have. There should be a tag there telling you what monitor it is. I am still using my Dell D1226H from 1998. I found the specs online and I set mine @ 100 hz. Windows XP loaded the driver for mine. Should do the same for you.

The only way I would change this monitor out is if I got a 120 hz monitor and they cost a fortune.

ACF
07-25-2012, 04:56 AM
lol im using a dell 17 inch monitor, all it has is 60hz and 75hz

Deepack
07-25-2012, 01:53 PM
ACF is using a pimp monitor @ 75 hz for real Gs lol.

--- Updated ---


lol im using a dell 17 inch monitor, all it has is 60hz and 75hz

that's the realest shit right here.

Lee_Stricklin
08-05-2012, 09:36 AM
Speaking as someone who knows a bit about display types, I will tell you that CRT will kick the shit out of LCD in almost every category. Period. The only true weaknesses a CRT has is size and the fact that it can be hard (but usually not impossible) to get perfect geometry on them. Here's a list of advantages/disadvantages I've come across from my own experience:

CRT
--------------------
Advantages
---------
No native resolution which means your resolution options are limited strictly by how many lines exist on your screen. Your old DOS games running at 320X240 will look as intended.
ZERO LAG
Generally higher refresh rates (minimum refresh rate on my screen is a flicker-free 75Hz)
Usually a lot cheaper
These things last for decades
Color is generally better
Best blacks of any screen type developed
Generally come in higher resolutions (at least when they were being produced, my screen maxes out at 2048X1536)

Disadvantages
----------
Pain in the ass to tweak geometry
Tweaking convergence can be a real chore, especially on shadow mask types
Dangerous as hell to work on (NEVER rip open a CRT without proper training or instruction)
Heavy
Can't really get them bigger than 30 inches
Old CRTs can take upwards of half an hour to warm up depending on how used up they are
Availability, these things are no longer in production on a consumer level


LCD/LED (Same shit, LED simply refers to the backlighting used. Non-LED LCD screens use fluorescent lighting as do CRTs)
--------------------
Advantages
------------
Less bulky
Lightweight
Perfect geometry without tweaking

Disadvantages
-------------
Locked to a native resolution (Have fun running something at 320X240 on a 1920X1080 LCD and being able to decipher any of it. Proper upscaling methods that don't look like ass are doable but require a separate box that generally increases lag.)
Motion blur and ghosting (Though they've gotten better with this through the use of DVI and HDMI, still present though but a lot of people won't notice it)
Can't display true blacks
Colors are generally not as good (They are improving here as well)
INPUT LAG (Even without scaling the screen is noticeably behind what you are doing, even 2ms is unacceptable for me)
Expanding on lag, latency increases with screen size and pixel count
Lower lifespan due to shoddy construction most of the time (one major manufacture flaw found in a lot of screens is that the screen is hooked up via a wire strip at the top of the display and is prone to catching heat build up)
Image "persistence" is more likely to happen on LCDs than burn-in on CRT (both of these are really the same thing)
Plenty of deceptive marketing ploys exist around them


Myths
---------------------------
CRTs are less power efficient than LCDs (My eleven year old Trinitron actually uses less juice than a lot of 1920X1200 displays in production right now)
CRTs don't have flat screens (actually a lot of them do, in fact a limitation in larger Trinitrons REQUIRES the screen to be flat to prevent the phosphor strips from shaking)
LCDs have brighter colors
LCDs don't suffer burn-in (it's actually called something different, image persistence, and it's more likely to happen on LCDs than burn is to happen on CRTs)
HDMI is better than VGA
HDMI is better than DVI



Watch out for/keep an eye out for in the future
---------------------------
Field Emission Displays (FED). They're essentially CRT technology put into a flat panel application, currently they're in the testing phases. Sony and a few others were working on them, but abandoned the concept, they however sold it to a company that is currently developing on it.

Higor
08-05-2012, 03:00 PM
Ghosting and power efficiency of LCD's depend on the quality of the screen.

I went from a NEC 19" CRT to a Samsung 23" LCD plugged on DVI.
No ghosting, no lag (DVI), good colors, no stretching on 4:3 ratio.

That's why I say, test the screen before buying it.
Make the comparison between high quality displays on both sides to make it fair, we all know the flaws of shitty CRT's and LCD.

Moving onto LED's, has the lifetime limitation of certain colors been sorted?

HIGH[+]AdRiaN
08-05-2012, 03:21 PM
someone know if CTR monitor are still made?

Deepack
08-05-2012, 05:01 PM
Watch out for/keep an eye out for in the future
---------------------------
Field Emission Displays (FED). They're essentially CRT technology put into a flat panel application, currently they're in the testing phases. Sony and a few others were working on them, but abandoned the concept, they however sold it to a company that is currently developing on it.

How long would that take to be out? If it's made with CRT technology then it could be really good with high refresh rates also. I just googled "Field Emission Displays" and I've seen one that looks like this; 674

That looks cool but I wonder if the performance would be as good or better than the legendary CRTs. Also, when that is first released it could be well over $600 and that's just too much to spend for a monitor.

UT-Sniper-SJA94
08-05-2012, 05:26 PM
Just look around in second hand shops for them, i got one a few years ago, with 4built in usb ports for £1(runs fine and still works now). I now have a LCD.

Lee_Stricklin
08-05-2012, 06:13 PM
How long would that take to be out? If it's made with CRT technology then it could be really good with high refresh rates also. I just googled "Field Emission Displays" and I've seen one that looks like this; 674

That looks cool but I wonder if the performance would be as good or better than the legendary CRTs. Also, when that is first released it could be well over $600 and that's just too much to spend for a monitor.

We're still not sure yet. Last I checked, the people that bought the technology were still experimenting with it, but there were reliability issues with the displays they built. I guess it will be another year or so before we start hearing about them, they likely won't hit the market for two years.


EDIT: Here's a site that tracks this sort of thing
http://www.fed-tv-reviews.com/tag/field-emission-display/