PDA

View Full Version : Future versions of Siege. A more competitive and team play based Siege. Have your say



SAM
11-12-2012, 01:33 PM
Yes the recent changes have caused people to complain a lot. Those issues have been fixed.

I am now looking at ways to refine siege even further. People complain that Siege is noob friendly now especially with moving away from the XXL days. Those of you who played it, as myself, know that XXL versions were much more challenging and a lot more team promoting game mods.

Here is my proposal to bring it back, at least some what without directly going back to older versions.

I believe the "super items" such as super protector, super supp, super healthpod are too easily accessible. They should have a much more constructive way path.

As such, we should only allow the standard buildings from XXL to be available at the begininning of any game, ie standard supplier, standard healthpod, standard protector, mini shield. Going forwards, fortification can be enhanced by building a "refinery" this refinery, once built will allow your team access to items such as forcefield, super supplier, super health pod super protector. This will enable much more challenging and stimulating game environment.

As soon as the refinery is destroyed, your team must rebuild it in order to access the refined items. The already built refined items will stay and be usable regardless of whether your refinery is alive or not.

Please post your thoughts.

I would say the refinery should cost 1k non upgradeable, if upgradeable then levels should give certain items which is also up for discussion.

EsKay
11-12-2012, 01:49 PM
I think this sounds like a good idea myself. I do agree that it can be a little easy at times for one team to kill the other teams core, is there any way to implicate a length of time at the start of the match where you aren't allowed to attack the other teams core? The other day we had a 5 minute match

|uK|Rays
11-12-2012, 01:49 PM
I posted a thread like this one yesterday for the MLSG admins lol. Higor has made a lot of things editable through a .ini right? We can go about tweaking from there, and I agree somewhat on the old siege being more difficult, but there are some great things about the newer versions too.

I think we should have a test team of veteran players to look over changes as they're made, not just SW and Higor.

SAM
11-12-2012, 01:55 PM
Well this is all up for discussion. Yes the newer version of siege is great but we are losing the old classic style of real hard grinding RTS.

Higor
11-12-2012, 02:07 PM
Brings me back to Age of Empires lol, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a more 'construct and advance' oriented Siege, either as main or a branch (alternate gametype, triggered by mapvote?).

There's 3 paths into a construction run oriented Siege:
- Team Stages
- Development Trees
- Orb based game

Team stages:
Team builds a required amount of basic builds and builds the 'refinery' or equivalent (my idea consists on a 'Global enhancer' that disperses/dissapears and unlocks the more powerful builds).
Once that is done, it means advancing to next build stage and unlocking one greater level of builds.

Development trees:
Each non-basic build has a basic requirement before being able to be constructed, putting the Super Supplier as example:
L5 Supplier > SupplierXXL
L5 Supplier XXL > Super Supplier
L5 Motion alarm > Nuke siren

Orb based game:
Would change gameplay centering it on Orb generators, putting ru into them and using Orbs to directly transform basic builds into more advanced versions.



Things that will turn out from this:
Map size and complexity will determine the amount of stages/trees teams will try advancing towards before fully focusing on destroying the enemy team.
2 extra complexity levels in both directions, starting with Mini Containers and ending with a Mega Container, super blocking fields and stuff.


Previous requirements apart from totally scrapping a whole gametype:
The entire price list for the alternate mode would have to be reviewed.
It would be required to make even more builds.
The core could have more than 5 upgrade levels, not reachable via constructor but via other means.
Damage to buildings needs to be scaled depending on damager's stage/level, so in the beginning small builds aren't easily destroyed and super builds don't take ages to leech.

A^3
11-12-2012, 02:12 PM
I personally liked siege before emp and neurton was introduced. Nowadays games are tied till the last second and then a neutron is built to win. Siege is still fun though.

SAM
11-12-2012, 02:14 PM
The EMP and neutron will be part of the refinery along with invincible warhead. Basically all the powerful items.

!DEAD
11-12-2012, 02:17 PM
Make siege for UT2004 or UT3!

SAM
11-12-2012, 02:20 PM
Make siege for UT2004 or UT3!

No

Higor
11-12-2012, 02:22 PM
I got one very simple idea:
After the super supplier, we have the mega supplier.
The mega supplier would increase ammo up to an extra 50% (like minigun to 300), refill hyper leechers and temporarily charge a player to deal 20% extra damage to builds.
This would make players focus a lot more on leeching rather than DM'ing.
A team full of attackers 'mega' supplied can break through areas fortified by super containers, forcefields and other nasty builds.

SAM
11-12-2012, 02:27 PM
I got one very simple idea:
After the super supplier, we have the mega supplier.
The mega supplier would increase ammo up to an extra 50% (like minigun to 300), refill hyper leechers and temporarily charge a player to deal 20% extra damage to builds.
This would make players focus a lot more on leeching rather than DM'ing.
A team full of attackers 'mega' supplied can break through areas fortified by super containers, forcefields and other nasty builds.

I don't think we need any more "super" buildings. Siege needs to have limitations as to what is readily available at beginning of game IMO

SilverWing
11-12-2012, 02:43 PM
If i posted what would be good.. i think half the people will cry...

audiosonic
11-12-2012, 03:49 PM
Neutron bomb needs to go for sure, explosions shouldn't go through walls (even though nukes kind of did in earlier versions). I don't think the neutron bomb was made to get cheap nuke kills or last minute core damage, that's just a bad idea imo.

Also this refinery idea, as long as you can't make those early rocket cannons (extremely gay and so overpowered still), is worth a shot. Kind of a ripoff of the old factory but now it's a more essential build rather than optional.

SAM
11-12-2012, 04:09 PM
Well the factory's primary function was to give RU to whoever is standing in it. Which made siege, after having built a factory "I will camp in factory until my RU is full"

!DEAD
11-12-2012, 04:19 PM
why not?
No

Disturbed//*.
11-12-2012, 04:28 PM
I Remember when there was SupplierX and ContainerX and Screen/Camera and
a Protector and a Gaurdian and Home Becon's.
There was never no SuperContainer and all that stuff we have now.
I missed those days.
Atleast bring back some good stuff.

SAM
11-12-2012, 05:00 PM
I Remember when there was SupplierX and ContainerX and Screen/Camera and
a Protector and a Gaurdian and Home Becon's.
There was never no SuperContainer and all that stuff we have now.
I missed those days.
Atleast bring back some good stuff.

This is what will be aimed for at least beginning of games until a refinery is built

Crsk
11-12-2012, 06:39 PM
Today, exploring... I discover SiegeAnywhere, from there is the first Idea about what Im going to say (about prepair the base)

At the first two minutes you can't attack enemy buildings or kill someone, you can just prepare your base!
you are getting fast RU but, if the game is unfair...

BLUE= 6 players
RED= 5 Players

The BLUE team are receiving RU slower than the RED team

RU per Player= ("Team" number of players)/(30*second) so

For BLUE:

RU per Player= 600 in two minutes
[6/(30*120)= 600]

RU per Team= 3600 in two minutes
[6*600= 3600]

For RED:

RU per Player= 720 in two minutes
[5/(30*120)= 720]

RU per Team= 3600 in two minutes
[5*720= 3600]

EQUALITY!

The player need to use his constructor or he lost his RU, the RU capacity is 300 so the team cant ammount the RU in one player and make SS or something like that. Just containers, supplier(300), health pod(300), protectors(200), mines, up core, etc...

now, talking about the CORE

if (0<=x<1)
activate inventory for builds with a cost <= 300 RU

if (1<=x<2)
activate inventory for builds with a cost <= 500 RU

if (2<=x<3)
activate inventory for builds with a cost <= 750 RU

if (3<=x<4)
activate inventory for builds with a cost <= 1200 RU

if (4<=x<=5)
activate inventory for all the builds (Nuke, InvNuke, Emp, Neutron, Poison, SuperContainer, SuperJetPack)

*var x means CORE Level

and for up the CORE, this ecuation:
100-(300*Level)
so...
200 RU for get lvl 1
+500 RU for get lvl 2
+800 RU for get lvl 3
+1100 RU for get lvl 4
+1400 RU for get lvl 5

That means a team need 4000 of RU for get CORE level 5 and start nuking

but dont worry if you are dying for build your first nuke and you dont like Upgrade your CORE, because when you get enemy damage or when you kill someone, your core is getting level!

so...
noobs can up the "CORE level" with UPGRADE function
others can up the "CORE level" causing enemy damage and killing

More things:
-For build a Super Supplier/Super Health Pod you need to wait 25 minutes before started the game

-For build Rocket Cannons you need 500 of RU, only 3 Rocket Cannons allowed per respawn (you need to get killed or suicide for build 3 more), for build 4 or more than 4 Rocket Cannons you need CORE level 4 or 5

-Two players allowed at the same time in one supplier

too much work to do with Siege...

Crsk
11-12-2012, 06:55 PM
and too lazy for keep talking xD ideas never ends

Banny
11-12-2012, 11:59 PM
Seriously, Rocket cannons , neutron , emp, invi nukes has definitely lowered the siege level. We use to play on nOs*badgers siege and we had many close & exciting games. Honestly i don't like the nuke siren too . It just alert team players that you have to camp at core and shock spam.

Higor
11-13-2012, 12:58 AM
Custom categories mah boi, a mutator with a 'classic' category info could be enforced, again, in an unused mapvote column.

Lee_Stricklin
11-13-2012, 03:01 AM
My idea: make it more like XXLw, XXLx, XXLy, or XXLz. The newer versions after XXLz just weren't that great in my opinion and weren't nearly as much of a team game as what the current mess is. Not only that, the constructor options weren't nearly as cluttered, there were more ways to get killed, and protectors didn't stop firing when their targets were at 10HP. I miss playing games like those that existed on nOs and Rebellion servers 4 or 5 years ago.

SAM
11-13-2012, 03:04 AM
The protectors always stopped firing when target was at 10hp. Which is why the killer protector was invents which sucked balls.

|uK|Chronox
11-13-2012, 10:23 AM
Well I agree with some of you there, Siege2 is worse than old school Siege.

I miss those days with just the Sup X and Health pod, it took skill to win lot of games...


I agree with most ideas we need a more competitive and "skill-based" Siege version.. With of course bug fixes lol

The refinery idea seemed cool, only 1 per team, and another target in order to win the game..
I also find the Nuke Siren to be very annoying, and as someone said, it is like "shock camping at base"

IMO it should be modified to work like the Motion Alarm, whenever a nuke carrier is close it should alert the whole team with the map location.


I have another Idea:

Why not make the Super mine limited ? I mean, make the number of times it detonates about... 5-10 detonations(kills) per level or something ? it is just boring that once you Mine a portal you cant get in anymore.

Nice Thread SAM we need the good ol Siege back :D

HIGH[+]AdRiaN
11-13-2012, 10:33 AM
Yes the recent changes have caused people to complain a lot. Those issues have been fixed.

I am now looking at ways to refine siege even further. People complain that Siege is noob friendly now especially with moving away from the XXL days. Those of you who played it, as myself, know that XXL versions were much more challenging and a lot more team promoting game mods.

Here is my proposal to bring it back, at least some what without directly going back to older versions.

I believe the "super items" such as super protector, super supp, super healthpod are too easily accessible. They should have a much more constructive way path.

As such, we should only allow the standard buildings from XXL to be available at the begininning of any game, ie standard supplier, standard healthpod, standard protector, mini shield. Going forwards, fortification can be enhanced by building a "refinery" this refinery, once built will allow your team access to items such as forcefield, super supplier, super health pod super protector. This will enable much more challenging and stimulating game environment.

As soon as the refinery is destroyed, your team must rebuild it in order to access the refined items. The already built refined items will stay and be usable regardless of whether your refinery is alive or not.

Please post your thoughts.

I would say the refinery should cost 1k non upgradeable, if upgradeable then levels should give certain items which is also up for discussion.
great idea, will be like a progressive base, that can be increase unreservedly, like the attack stuff... the games will be a lot better, strategy and team work will need more, I'm looking forward to these updates =]

__________________

nuke siren is good chronox, is impossible fail when the enemy dont have siren... yeah, that is really a shock spam, but it is just another obstacle for differentiate the good nuker from a normal one

SAM
11-13-2012, 12:13 PM
If all agreed with refinery I will make a list of refined items and possibly level based refined items access.

|uK|kenneth
11-13-2012, 02:32 PM
well the siege version that SK aka koala made was the best version and should just stop right there.

SAM
11-13-2012, 02:50 PM
well the siege version that SK aka koala made was the best version and should just stop right there.

It's still the same version though? All the releases so far since SK have been code optimisations to make it run smoother for both client and server.

|uK|B|aZe//.
11-13-2012, 02:50 PM
go back to basics

less attacking weapons which right now siege leans WAY more towards attackers there isnt a balance for defence and attack items/gameplay

xxl2g and extremelite and ultimate the first version were the only good sieges around by far

like banny said the skill level in siege has dropped drastically because of the range of attacking items available

SAM
11-13-2012, 02:54 PM
The items available in ultimate by koala are still there. There have been no additions either. All this sounds like to me is everyone is complaining because of the bugs that code optimisation has brought....Higor has not added any buildings at all.

Higor
11-13-2012, 04:33 PM
Defensive structures?
There's infinite ideas for that I assure you.

terminator
11-13-2012, 08:59 PM
Not a fan of a nuke siren. I still miss superjumpboots though and a bit of a flamethrower as an item there :P :P

Muffin
11-14-2012, 01:46 AM
I don't think it would effect gameplay that much, but I think nukers get WAY too many points. You get points for even building a nuke. People can go out and nuke and get top score, while the people actually trying to make a good defense don't really get any credit cause they're on the bottom. Just my opinion though.

Also, I don't like the nuke siren. Like someone said earlier, it just encourages camping and I believe prolongs the game.

SAM
11-14-2012, 04:05 AM
Why don't you like the new siren can you elaborate please.

11-14-2012, 04:55 AM
I didnt play old siege that mutch but I remember that translocator was same at lvl 5 like at lvl 0 . In new siege its realy easy to nuke with translocator on many maps. thats why new siege have nuke siren and emp I beleve. so if you gonna remove nuke siren you need to remove emp and return translocator like it was before. Im not for removing all that new stuff and I already see many ppl will not agree with it. I like new siege and I beleve there is ton of solutions to keep it like it is. so if emp is problem becouse it disable all buildings and it have big range and also sometimes if building are maded at same spot its impossible to repair building also if it is burned with flame same problem. My ide is (maybie bad idea) to add new bomb (repair bomb ) or something witch gonna cost about 1500 but build time 15-20 seconds so nukers have few second to nuke base if base have alot Mines. I think nuke siren is better now than before... not ennoying sound anymore and no more spamm in console. but as I see alot ppl dont like nuke siren becouse of combo spamm and other things ... thats why you have team to cover you and you need skill and luck also. nuking is realy adrenaline :) . without nuke siren nuking is really easy with translocator lvl3-lvl5. I also like new ideas that you need some building to Unlock other buildings becouse its realy easy to rape core with rocket cannons( I do it almost every match) before other team have time to build super protector lvl 5.

SAM
11-14-2012, 05:03 AM
Lol repair bomb

Btw the constrictor now has (thanks to Higor) a function where it prioritises. This means that if you have items close together it will detect both and upgrade/repair them etc without having to squeeze into a corner somewhere to get the right angle and then lose it again because a container spinner round....anyone appreciate the good rather than always complain about what's bad?! :rolleyes:

|uK|Grimreaper
11-14-2012, 10:54 AM
actually i was thinking a while ago about a repair bomb
its a pretty good idea..
for example i see emp message so i make repair bomb right away and they wont see the message or they can see it idk, so everything gets repaired back right after the emp.. would be harder to nuke with this another goal and a challenge

HIGH[+]AdRiaN
11-14-2012, 11:42 AM
this repair bomb is good, but i think the build time must be only 5 seconds more than emp... 5 sec is a good time for nuke, and 1350 for build cost is good for me

about RC, limit a number of RCs per respanw is not a good idea... just imagine, tele above core on bleuvember, you have 2000 ru, what you gonna when you use all your RCs? suicide, or get down for they kill you!

i think you need put a time for make more than 1 RC... when you make a RC, need wait 5 seconds for make another one, RC is only overpowered when you make many bomb together, but 1 by 1 is not so strong

trans range really must be changed, nuke using trans on maps like bathrooms is really toooo fucking easy, and not so easy in narrow maps, that you need teleport near sps, mines etc... but decrease the trans rage will not make very difference for these maps... for me the trans lv 5 must be a rage between the current lv3 and lv4

|uK|Chronox
11-14-2012, 02:01 PM
FROM FIDO:

Go back to SiegeXXl2g

From me:

Agreed but keep the new improvements bug fixes that Higor made.

I insist on either removing the nuke siren or nerfing it to work like a motion sensor, but with a wider range and resistance to attacks.

SilverWing
11-14-2012, 02:12 PM
actually i was thinking a while ago about a repair bomb
its a pretty good idea..
for example i see emp message so i make repair bomb right away and they wont see the message or they can see it idk, so everything gets repaired back right after the emp.. would be harder to nuke with this another goal and a challenge

I think we r making the game harder so games are more fun.. not noober for u lazy ass who cant repair a building prooperly and defend it... goddd

|uK|B|aZe//.
11-14-2012, 02:34 PM
just take the goddamn thing out, if you cant be good enough to realise someone is nuking and taking them down regardless of knowing if they are nuking or not simple fact is that person shouldnt be in your base anyway

Higor
11-14-2012, 03:43 PM
The nuke siren is very easy to deal with:
Make it cost 4500 RU.

SAM
11-14-2012, 04:22 PM
The radius of the nuke siren should be reduced drastically. It's way too large.

Moskva
11-14-2012, 08:48 PM
As [email protected] mentioned well, if you take off the siren you must nerf the trans

Also the repair bomb is as retarded as Grim, would be the same as Sektor's RU bomb, and its a proven fact that games lasted forever because of it

HIGH[+]AdRiaN
11-14-2012, 09:31 PM
guys, just remember, is fact what to nuke is easy, we have many itens for do this: trans, invis, speed, boots, jet etc.
but attack the core not using this itens is currently too hard, i'm speaking about attack the core, not only hit... and if you add more defensives itens the only way for attack the core will be nuking or using teles

we need hinder the attack using offencive itens, but never make hardest attack the core without use them.
new defence itens must be added, but when you do this, i have sure you will need weaken SPs, maybe mines.
but all such adjustments can only be done bit by bit, testing the difficulty in all situations and in all type of maps.

___________________________________________

if you nerf trans, nuke siren really must be the value changed, 2500 for me is a good value... and the resistance too must be decreased lol
maybe a little more stronger than a cont lv 5 (which remains about 20% when get nuked)

Higor
11-14-2012, 09:49 PM
Well, in certain maps, my primary target is the enemy Nuke Siren.
It sure it take a lot to destroy, but once I done my team's nukers end the game with ease due to not being detected.

HIGH[+]AdRiaN
11-14-2012, 10:48 PM
yes but nuke siren is the only item that you can make in the place that you want... will be better make the siren protected (many times inside of nuke room) what make near the mid of map for detect nukers faster

Scourge
11-15-2012, 10:53 PM
A tech tree sounds fine for pugs, but I don't think it would be a very good idea in public.

audiosonic
11-16-2012, 04:34 AM
Nah, you better keep this shit out of pugs

Banny
11-16-2012, 12:07 PM
I agree with adrian. nuke siren should cost about 4k, decrease it's radius and it's health must be same as that of a cont.

also Higor , i dont know whether it is possible or not but just like a super pro can u make something(cost about 3K ru) which aims laser or something at the trans to telegraph it because nukers with trans in open maps nuke way too easily e.g. bathrooms ..(unless u have a retard like CHIMP spamming flaks or pulse at the core).

HIGH[+]AdRiaN
11-16-2012, 08:11 PM
I agree with adrian. nuke siren should cost about 4k, decrease it's radius and it's health must be same as that of a cont.

also Higor , i dont know whether it is possible or not but just like a super pro can u make something(cost about 3K ru) which aims laser or something at the trans to telegraph it because nukers with trans in open maps nuke way too easily e.g. bathrooms ..(unless u have a retard like CHIMP spamming flaks or pulse at the core).
but on others maps it will make the trans useless
trans lv 5 with lv 3 range is perfect for me...
do the trans disc chart a course and add a time limit when you shot a disc (you have 5 discs ammo, when you shot 1 disc, you need wait 2 seconds for recover the ammo), like the ut2k trans can help to balance it.

search for a ctf, bomb run or other video with trans of ut2004.

trans must be dropable, if you die using trans, the enemy can pick it

______________________

and about speed, you must add a time limit for this item ><
many players abuse of this infinity time... metal + speed, super jet + speed

|uK|B|aZe//.
11-16-2012, 08:13 PM
i dont agree with the trans can be picked up and its droppable, you could for instance suicide and give it to a teammate or get killed on purpose with trans so another teammate can again pick it up

trans should be nerfed to that of a level 3 trans

terminator
11-16-2012, 09:48 PM
just take the goddamn thing out, if you cant be good enough to realise someone is nuking and taking them down regardless of knowing if they are nuking or not simple fact is that person shouldnt be in your base anyway
HUGEEEEEEEEEE SIGN to this!!! And since u're one of admins here make sure it will be removed! thx :D