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View Full Version : noggieB fixes weapon damage, brokers peace in middle east



noggieB
11-27-2012, 08:47 PM
Two things bother me on Siege atm:

- Everyone uses sniper ALL the time, even in close combat. It's well boring. Projectiles are fun (or at least they used to be, in long distant memory).

- Pulsebeam and minigun are thoroughly too easy to use near your SP. Noobs abuse it to get camp frags with zero effort.

So I worked on my FixWeaponBalance mutator with the following goals:

- Increase damage of projectile weapons a bit, to compensate for increased ease of hitscan weapons in zeroping.

- Reduce damage of pulse and minigun.

I finally got it how I wanted (pre-armour, all weapons), but while I was doing it, I also managed to add another feature, which will no doubt be controversial:

- Optionally, scale sniper damage relative to distance. Makes it a more powerful weapon at close range, but weaker at long range. This should combat camping and retreat-style play, and reward brave players who jump *into* battle to make some headshots!

Finally, I made everything configurable, so people won't go hating on my default settings.

Really hope you try this out SAM, and find a way to use it in some form.

Download with README: http://neuralyte.org/~joey/ut_releases/FixWeaponBalance_20121208.zip

Source codez here: Index of /ut/dev/FixWeaponBalance/Classes (http://hwi.ath.cx/ut/dev/FixWeaponBalance/Classes/?C=M;O=D)

|uK|Rays
11-27-2012, 11:32 PM
interesting stuff, worth testing a bit.

HIGH[+]AdRiaN
11-28-2012, 06:10 AM
then put zp or other lag compensation on projectile weapons...
sniper and primary of shock is the only weapon that is good for who have more skill, and not ping!

sniper is not overpowered, i can say this because i almost never used sniper on Br servers, shock combos, flak, rocket, mini really rapes, BUT NOT WITH 200 PING!

|uK|kenneth
11-28-2012, 07:11 AM
just leave it as it is ffs get over it.

terminator
11-28-2012, 08:25 AM
fact is that ZP brings the sniper abuse whether u admit that or not! If without zeroping most of those players would hit shit. :)
Problem is that we europeans and latino players got high pings and therefor wouldn't be able to play if without zeroping.
I still agree that minigun+pulse is hhhhhhiiiiiighhhllyyyyyyy <--- overpowered and that demands reduce of it.
On the other hand i'm afraid that if u increase power of rockets that it's gonna be even more rocket spam on maps like CAMPlex or niven :(

|uK|B|aZe//.
11-28-2012, 09:15 AM
im sorry you cant aim with a single hit weapon really i feel bad for you.

terminator
11-28-2012, 10:36 AM
Some people are better with single hit weapons, some people are better when combining all weapons including single hit ones.
However siege is mostly a snipe abuse mod (not counting pulse spams near superpros) and as long as server is placed in USA i believe it needs to be so.
At beginning i didn't like it (nor 125 speed) but i got used to it.

Higor
11-28-2012, 12:39 PM
Just have the head shots on ducking players fixed.

|uK|B|aZe//.
11-28-2012, 04:08 PM
Just have the head shots on ducking players fixed.

this i have been asking for many years... even as an established sniper player myself

Crsk
11-29-2012, 04:06 AM
Oh yea, i like that! i was testing your default and a see that:

[Distance in pixels] - [head shots necesary for kill someone with 100 heath]
[512] - [1]
[1024] - [2]
[2048] - [7]
[4096] - [9]
[8192] - [9]
[10240] - [9]

so, if you are trying to kill bots in their respawn points in face from the middle, you need 9 head shots (4096 pxs), and from the top of your base you need 9 head shots too (almost 8000 pxs) (without zp, for kill someone with 150 health + 150 armor for the same distances you need 13 head shots)
i think 13 is excesive, but the problem is if you reduce that for long distances, short distances will remain very powerful? similar question, can the admin set something like that in the ini? or you need to modify the code for that?

[512] - [1] (1 hs for take 150 health, +1 for take 150 armor)
[1024] - [2] (2 hs for take 150 health, +1 for take 150 armor)
[2048] - [2] (2 hs for take 150 health, +1 for take 150 armor)
[4096] - [3] (3 hs for take 150 health, +1 for take 150 armor)
[8192] - [4] (4 hs for take 150 health, +1 for take 150 armor)
[10240] - [4] (4 hs for take 150 health, +1 for take 150 armor)

in some maps, you need to use sniper because you need to zoom in but shooting like 10 times the enemy head for kill him is too much

p.s sorry if i'm wrong with my calculations, was a fast test

btw, the reason why people just use sniper and shock in siege
SniperRifle vs PulseGun - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvo406vh4Js&feature=youtu.be)

currently some weapons are good for kill in DM, not for Siege... xD gg

|uK|B|aZe//.
11-29-2012, 05:38 PM
ive hit players in two shots and some times one from long range in nonzp so the above is false or incorrect to some extent

noggieB
11-30-2012, 10:07 AM
im sorry you cant aim with a single hit weapon really i feel bad for you.

Hitscan skill, on the rare days when I have some, is not something I take much pride in (I call it point-and-click.) I get more satisfaction from matching the trajectory of a projectile to the predicted movement of a player (visible or not), and I want others to find the joy in that too!

Certainly there are many probabilities and risks to weigh up, chance and ping play a large role, and it's a lot for sniper/instagib players to learn. But that's the art of UT I worry the kids are missing out on. ;)

Kanjar and BioHazard ftw.

noggieB
11-30-2012, 10:09 AM
Oh yea, i like that! i was testing your default and a see that:
currently some weapons are good for kill in DM, not for Siege... xD gg

You are right about that, the default SniperPowerRange was increased for Siege, because I was also scaling some other weapons up to 125% ("semi-hardcore"). (With that in mind, I guess SuperPros should only hurt us to 13, argh.)

If you want a distant camper to be able to kill someone 150:150 in less than 13 shots, you can increase SniperMinDamage (maybe like the enforcer which does er 17?). You can tweak the curve as you like, just keep an eye on the resulting max possible in "mutate status". We originally had SniperHeadshot/BodyshotMaxDamage thresholds, but these suck as they are also applied to amped shots, so I will replace them with scale thresholds soon.

980

As for that IcePost moment (hehe) I should have been able to kill you in that time with pulse, but your dance was well-timed and I managed to miss every shot! If I had been moving, no doubt more of them would have hit you.

@Blaze, I think Crsk was talking about non-zp but with FixWeaponBalance mutator running. (I want to stop dtr sniper camping in CTF too, but let him headshot at close range!) I think we agree a headshot does 150 in normal hardcore UT, independent of distance. (Although in some modes there may be a threshold beyond which it does not count as a hit at all.)

However, Adrian's points do give me pause. The "level playing field" of zp-hitscan does explain why sniper maps are popular on uK server, and also helps me understand the sad demise of |TerrorSquad| server (custom map nwzpCTF became ThornsV8 nwzpCTF gah!). If high pingers really do prefer a sniper arena, then I fear only a South American server can bring back the joy of spam! (Edit: or perhaps NewNet)

I'm pretty sure I've reduced pulsebeam & mini too much for use anywhere except next to your SuperPro. ;) My defaults show the direction which I hoped to move in, but I hope you guys can find the ideal values.

Higor
11-30-2012, 11:21 AM
Map design, that's what fixes the sniper rifle.
Fire up any Warfare or VCTF map on UT3 and try camping, you'll notice nearly all map layouts make sniping very difficult.

Examples of open maps with great weapon balance:
- Mazon-Sieged (originally a stock map, ironic?)
- BadNeighbours
- EspritLE
- Hydro16

HIGH[+]AdRiaN
11-30-2012, 01:16 PM
most of maps weapons are balanced higor, you only see people using sniper because of ping, for me the only maps that sniper has advantage, even if everyone have good ping is bathrooms EQ1, V2 and Civil War's

|uK|B|aZe//.
11-30-2012, 07:08 PM
Hitscan skill, on the rare days when I have some, is not something I take much pride in (I call it point-and-click.) I get more satisfaction from matching the trajectory of a projectile to the predicted movement of a player (visible or not), and I want others to find the joy in that too!

Certainly there are many probabilities and risks to weigh up, chance and ping play a large role, and it's a lot for sniper/instagib players to learn. But that's the art of UT I worry the kids are missing out on. ;)

Kanjar and BioHazard ftw.

oh yeah because predicting someones movement with a hitscan weapon is really easy too right?

you contradict yourself in the exact same post as bashing snipers please stop talking already

terminator
11-30-2012, 09:16 PM
I agree with noggin but predicting someone's movements with 200 ping @ 125 is tough and not fun when u fail due to your ping and lags. :( therefor i'm using sniper even though i'm not a sniper player nor fan of it

noggieB
12-02-2012, 08:30 PM
You all make good points (except Blaze ofc). I think the server is fine how it is now (although pulsebeam still makes me mad!). Laggers vote sniper maps, low-pingers vote spam maps, and both parties get their chance.

I was wrong to say the kids are missing out on spam, since Niven is a daily occurrence. :)

Still the mod is available for anyone who wants to run a different setup on their server.

Thanks all (except Blaze) for feedback.

|uK|B|aZe//.
12-03-2012, 06:04 PM
You all make good points (except Blaze ofc). I think the server is fine how it is now (although pulsebeam still makes me mad!). Laggers vote sniper maps, low-pingers vote spam maps, and both parties get their chance.

I was wrong to say the kids are missing out on spam, since Niven is a daily occurrence. :)

Still the mod is available for anyone who wants to run a different setup on their server.

Thanks all (except Blaze) for feedback.

i know i was right its ok to be wrong sometimes noggie, dont worry about it

.seVered.][
12-04-2012, 11:54 PM
NoggieB... Syria needs your services.....

Scourge
01-04-2013, 01:02 PM
The main problem with the sniper rifle is not its damage output, it's the fact that you can keep the rifle perfectly level while moving. That is complete and total BULLSHIT.

SAM
01-04-2013, 01:17 PM
The main problem with the sniper rifle is not its damage output, it's the fact that you can keep the rifle perfectly level while moving. That is complete and total BULLSHIT.

And how do you do that? There is kick for CV...

Scourge
01-04-2013, 01:35 PM
And how do you do that? There is kick for CV...

Aim partly with keyboard, have mouse sensitivity in the y-direction reduced or turned off via custom mouse settings. Pretty sure the latter is possible either with custom mouses or custom apps, if it isn't I will be surprised.

In any case what I'm trying to say is that if you've got a sniper rifle, it's going to be bouncing all over the place when you're moving and you certainly wouldn't have any accuracy with a scoped shot.

Don't get me wrong, it's great that players are rewarded for precision, but is it really a good thing to have players dominate because they can line up the crosshair on a flat map with a single weapon?

Keith
01-04-2013, 04:44 PM
I've seen Crytek using that exploit. He looks like he's looking at the floor but his crosshair is perfectly centered at the head level.
I don't find it very useful unless on flat maps. Just put your Y axis to 0 you'll see clearly what Scourge is saying.

|uK|B|aZe//.
01-04-2013, 09:33 PM
fucking noobs using glitches to aim

lmfao.

|uK|kenneth
01-04-2013, 10:25 PM
fucking noobs using glitches to aim

lmfao.

so what bout you are you using any cheats/glitches?

|uK|B|aZe//.
01-04-2013, 10:28 PM
yeah fleece and chis witnessed my perfection!

|uK|chiseller
01-05-2013, 01:39 AM
I guess that's why I outfragged you on her laptop while you played on the nicely set up computer!

If you want a shaking crosshair increase view bob.
I myself have different axis speeds. Ppl who put their y-axis to 0 are useless 97% of the time. That's no glitch or anything, it's just stupid.

Scourge
01-05-2013, 02:34 AM
I guess that's why I outfragged you on her laptop while you played on the nicely set up computer!

If you want a shaking crosshair increase view bob.
I myself have different axis speeds. Ppl who put their y-axis to 0 are useless 97% of the time. That's no glitch or anything, it's just stupid.

Isn't there a way to adjust it while in-game?

Crsk
01-05-2013, 04:45 AM
And how do you do that? There is kick for CV...

What Scourge said and also what could work is export the mouselook code towards a mod tab and make a configuration to be able to turn it on/off when you wish, with the key you want. i dont know if it works but i think i know how to do that and i can say that it is something easy to do and could be something as an effective bypass.

and maybe make it with the same name as an a white list mod of mod menu checker? idk how mmc works so idk if an infiltrate mod will work but what i'm trying to say is that i think there are many easy ways to bypass the above and other prohibitions

|uK|chiseller
01-05-2013, 05:24 AM
Isn't there a way to adjust it while in-game?

I never tried it but I doubt it. If possible, however, that ability should be taken away. Just like the different mouse speeds or fov value some people added to weapon binds.

Higor
01-06-2013, 02:30 PM
Worried about CV faggots?
All i do is ape jump at them lol, a CV almost never frags me, while a skilled one gets me easier while in mid air...
So i just identify the CV's and only jump at them.

Scourge
01-06-2013, 02:42 PM
Worried about CV faggots?
All i do is ape jump at them lol, a CV almost never frags me, while a skilled one gets me easier while in mid air...
So i just identify the CV's and only jump at them.

CHIMP'D

No, but jumping actually makes it really easy for a CVer to own you because all they have to do is wait for the inevitable landing. I do that all the time to people who think jumping and dodging can save them.

|uK|B|aZe//.
01-06-2013, 06:28 PM
lol higor am i one of them? :P

|uK|Rays
01-06-2013, 07:22 PM
The bad thing is there are actually maps that locking your y axis on mouse can net you a lot of kills if all you do is camp, but you won't get any core damage that way and won't take any nukes down either so it's just stupid.

Scourge
01-07-2013, 06:07 PM
I feel as though rockets should accelerate once launched. That's basic physics and would make them a lot more useful than just close-range or leeching weapons.

Higor
01-07-2013, 06:23 PM
I feel as though rockets should accelerate once launched. That's basic physics and would make them a lot more useful than just close-range or leeching weapons.

Did you know that... rockets do accelerate? Only a bit but they do...

Scourge
01-08-2013, 01:56 AM
I mean, significantly, like, holy fuck that thing is fucking FLYING AT ME HOLY SHITIMGONNAFUCKI-WHATDOIDOAIOEHIEHAKNREH kind of accelerating.

|uK|B|aZe//.
01-08-2013, 09:39 AM
then you dont be able to dodge on ever.... doh?

Scourge
01-08-2013, 09:56 AM
The idea is that you'd be able to dodge, but you wouldn't have as much time as you do now.

Banny
01-08-2013, 11:46 PM
Worried about CV faggots?
All i do is ape jump at them lol, a CV almost never frags me, while a skilled one gets me easier while in mid air...
So i just identify the CV's and only jump at them.

I use centerview and get kicked for it.


ontopic : why would servers allow CV these days. 80% lame around with CV .. srsly

!DEAD
01-09-2013, 12:40 AM
I use centerview and get kicked for it.
It is annoying.