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][X][~FLuKE~][X][
03-25-2013, 12:26 PM
Higor

can you explain how on Simplex you managed to get in the base and fire off a nuke when the tele had a super mine? are you exploiting some kind of glitch?



either way, you need to fix that otherwise whats the point of an SM when you can still walk through and fire the nuke, unless you like exploiting glitches in siege which no one else will know about.

Chamberly
03-25-2013, 01:48 PM
Did he actually went through it (touched it by any chance?) or he got away and didn't even touched it?

Higor
03-25-2013, 02:33 PM
:trolldance:

Ok serious now.

It's not a glitch, but it's how the sgBuildings were designed.
All sgBuildings, including mines don't check stuff on Tick() but rather on Timer()
The timer is preset like this: SetTimer(0.1,true);

The level's current time dilation is 1.35 on any uK Siege server (1.10 hardcore mode * 1.25 game speed).
So the actual timer runs at least every 0.074 - 74ms
Pub server runs at a tickrate of 65, meaning each tick takes at least 15ms.

The closest upper multiple of 15ms to that timer is 75ms (actually 76.9, on 5 ticks) so the sgBuildings run pretty accurately at this tickrate.
So this gives me between 0 and 4 frames to shoot the nuke before dying.

(It ain't easy, I failed like 4 times there)

|uK|B|aZe//.
03-25-2013, 06:12 PM
i smell bullshit.

Feralidragon
03-25-2013, 07:03 PM
Higor: In that case you would need to hit fire almost at the same time as you teleported like a twitch, since that time is really short and there's also ping and the actor list order to consider. You would really need to be uber fast and be really really really lucky with it.

And another thing: if that's the case, shouldn't the nuke get destroyed by the super mine explosion (since the radius would still be great enough as the deemer is so slow, and the spawn would have to occur before the mine went off)? Or does the mine only kills players these days?
Just curious btw...

Higor
03-25-2013, 09:37 PM
The explosion is and 'was' coded to attack pawns.
And there is a small workaround that gives me an extra set of 5 ticks to shoot (lol shield belt), making it even easier.

I was practising this on pug server, a player named Tincho came and managed to shoot the nuke as well.

Feralidragon
03-26-2013, 06:37 AM
Yeah, I checked it yesterday and it does indeed damage pawns alone. I thought it damaged nukes too, hence my confusion.
Anyway, that's quite an exploit nonetheless and should be closed in the next version imo, since mines are meant to explode right when you step on them with no delays.

][X][~FLuKE~][X][
03-26-2013, 01:49 PM
mad? no... seeing the mod editor exploit a bug that no one else knows or is able to do is the only thing i wanted the answer to, no personal feelings on it at all.

but i guess i was right, you are exploiting your own coding.

you were also successful in firing the nuke in the tele quite a few times, not once or twice.


Higor: In that case you would need to hit fire almost at the same time as you teleported like a twitch, since that time is really short and there's also ping and the actor list order to consider. You would really need to be uber fast and be really really really lucky with it.



This is the exact reason why i made this thread, there is no way without there being a glitch with SM to do what you did over and over. you cant say it isnt by explaining tick() and Timer() code, that is irrelevant, what IS relevant is the SM can be exploited which you showed, this needs to be rectified, i applaud you and severed for the hours of testing and finding these glitches, but using your findings of glitches in a public server is out of order.

people would freak if i exploited bugs in the RX, just because i made them doesnt give me the right to abuse them when others are playing, you dont have that right either.

|uK|kenneth
03-26-2013, 02:12 PM
damn son 2nd SK akka koala.

Chamberly
03-26-2013, 02:18 PM
Well it's possible that most of the time developers have been making mods and then come out to find a bug to fix... They'll try to go against it and see if it work or not. & then so some suggestion for it to be modified or however... but I still appreciate Higor, he is awesome coder as well for what he done here. & for every other.

Higor
03-26-2013, 02:46 PM
Will patch that for RC20

Feralidragon
03-26-2013, 02:59 PM
^ Nice to know. :)
However, if you don't mind, don't do it again Higor.
I think I speak for everyone when I say that exploiting such "flaws" in the middle of a game is lame.
"With power comes responsibility."
You did exploit such things in the past knowingly the reason and flaws behind them, before you became the "official" Siege developer of sort to speak, so this wouldn't be first time, but perhaps it's a good idea this to be the last time you do so, since as the current main developer, you should serve the example in-game and close these exploits as soon as you realize about them, and not abuse them while no one questions you about it.


Well it's possible that most of the time developers have been making mods and then come out to find a bug to fix... They'll try to go against it and see if it work or not. & then so some suggestion for it to be modified or however... but I still appreciate Higor, he is awesome coder as well for what he done here. & for every other.
I don't want to add wood to the fire, since Higor will close the exploit.
However, since it came to this, I have to be blatantly honest here: if someone finds an exploit, it's ok check into it and try it once, and it's ok to hide it from others so lamers don't use it, but it's NOT ok to use it himself in the middle of a game. He stated himself: he failed 4 times and succeeded in 1, which suggests he knew this "design flaw" beforehand and tried it 5 times in the middle of an actual game, which is wrong and should not be repeated imo.

Anyway, moving on, Higor said he is going to patch it in the next version, so I guess it's all good for now.

Chamberly
03-26-2013, 03:11 PM
Will patch that for RC20

Roger that.

|uK|B|aZe//.
03-26-2013, 03:38 PM
whos to say you arent exploiting other things that we dont know about?

i dont really trust you anymore cant say the same for the other head admins

nOs*Wildcard
03-27-2013, 05:37 AM
damn son 2nd SK akka koala.


This is Exactly what it comes down to. Someone else takes the ball and follows down the same path as SK. It would be foolish for anyone to act like it's not possible. However I don't know Higor well enough or seen him play myself to say he's the next Silent Koala. However from my past wisdom I will give you all a warning. If he's following in Silent Koala's footsteps you're in trouble. His skills are of a much higher magnitude then Silent Koala's was. He probably has the knowledge to hide things so well it would be nearly impossible to find concrete evidence. Silent Koala was clumsy in the past and gave himself away MULTIPLE TIMES, Higor wouldn't be that clumsy. He's an adept coder and has a great understanding on how unreal works as you all can probably tell from each of his posts. The warning however is that only makes him the more deadlier...
I encourage you all to carry out your own investigations and come up with your own thoughts from there. I cannot offer any evidence to either confirm or deny he's abusing his talent's like Silent Koala unfortunately decided to do :( If you want the truth you'll have to come up with your own answers. My concern is with how adept his skills are he would never present that opportunity so easily for any of us to find any evidence. Higor won't leave any breadcrumbs for you to find in his content and if he did you would have to at least be at his level or above so you need to take your investigations a more social level to gather anything. The first place you would look would be in Higor's attitude. Traits like arrogance and bad sportsmanship may be your first clues. Next thing to think about is how far do you think this guy would go to win a game? Does winning mean just about everything to him? Also think, has he ever used any kind of glitch before in the game even a common one others would be aware of? For example would he be the kind of guy that would multi gun? (I know multi gunning might have been fixed ages ago and be considered irrelevant to you but still think in the scenario it existed if he would) I could go on but I hope most of you understand the gist of what I'm getting at here. You would have to consider investigating this at a social level first since I believe his code would be obfuscated.
Higor, I will let you know I have nothing against you. I simple don't know enough about you. I simply want the community to be aware of the possible danger and I believe Silent Koala should serve as a stern warning to everyone that they have the right to have their doubts. I don't know if anyone here knows this but after I think months passed after Silent Koala's exile from the |uK| community he came to my server (((GateWays))) and I gave him a chance there. After a while suspicions once again raised up once he quickly raised up on the top 10 board so I gave him a test personalized for him. I deliberately uploaded one of the older versions of his Bad Neighbors Ultimate map and came on with a name no one has ever seen before and we played a game of siege. Not even two minutes into a game and he activated his embedded cheat mutator and my server side mutator intercepted his command and he was busted again. I found out exactly what I was looking for and that is if he's given the chance to cheat would he take it? In short, I deliberately baited him with his own map just to test him to see if he would bite the hook. From there I disposed of him and the rest is history. This may be irrelevant to the concern here but since we were talking about Silent Koala I figured I'd take the chance to tell you what happened from where you left off of and it serves as a small reminder that some people don't change in regards to cheating. I remember Silent Koala's attitude all to well too. His attitude can be a template of other cheaters as well.

I just hope in the event that exploits are found that the |uK| administration does the right thing and go straight to immediate exile because if you give someone like Silent Koala another chance they will only get better at hiding their exploits. However somebody's skills like Higor might not ever be so careless like Silent Koala and get discovered.

Good Luck, Enjoy The TLDR
- nOs*Wildcard

.seVered.][
03-27-2013, 07:51 AM
whos to say you arent exploiting other things that we dont know about?

i dont really trust you anymore cant say the same for the other head admins

I AM, SAM is, SHIVA is... .. and of course ... HE IS... so please don't blow this out of proportion.

My opinion is there SHOULD be a delay with the SuperMine and it's strength should be DECREASED. So that this option is at least possible. But someone 'else' decided the mines should have the strength that they do now. Perhaps put it to a vote.

Higor
03-27-2013, 01:57 PM
Putting me in the same league as somebody who paid for an aimbot and added exploit commands to Siege and maps...
Putting me in the same league as somebody who created a console cheat and added exploit commands to Siege...

My main motivation is research, I do things to learn and understand.
I have no obligations, or debts here.

I will disappear as quickly as I showed up, the moment I feel this is no longer worth my time and dedication.
That is my answer, and maybe the last one.

SAM
03-27-2013, 02:11 PM
@Higor (http://www.unrealkillers.com/member.php?u=1761)

I don't want you to think anyone is crucifying you. Don't take it personally. No one wants a repeat of SK and I can understand why people are posting the things they are and I hope you can too. At the same time though, you shouldn't have to pay for someone else's "mistakes"....Having said that though....I can't help but think this was a bit self induced but that doesn't mean everyone should tar you with the same brush as SK

|uK|Chronox
03-27-2013, 02:23 PM
Think this through people, you act like if he had haxed with chams and super aimbot or something.
Don't hackusate or accuse someone without proof... Yeah he may have admitted he tried an "exploit", but its nothing THAT critical....

Gather proof or evidence before that.

Just patch the S.Mine and this particular problem will be gone.

If you cant take any chances just put a watchman or something, just in case.1150

|uK|chiseller
03-27-2013, 03:00 PM
Gotta agree with Fluke and Ferali, it was a mistake and it shouldn't happen again.
Your work is really appreciated but the public server is not a testing place.

nOs*Wildcard
03-27-2013, 03:21 PM
Question,

Can't this whole dumb super mine glitch thing be avoided by checking the Touch() event instead of the silly method it uses now? I haven't used Touch() event enough to know the ins and outs of it but isn't efficient in the sense that it doesn't need the actor list? I bet Ferali can answer that :) Also why don't we just replace super mines with mega mines?

--- Updated ---

Unlike checking an iterator periodically on a tick or timer isn't the touch event called the moment that someone touches it? Then again.... sigh.... there has got to be a reason it wasn't used in the first place.

Higor
03-27-2013, 03:25 PM
Already solved, since I optimized the mines, they use a big trigger as collision hull.
This trigger reports to the mine everytime a valid enemy touches it, and then the mine does the visibility checks on reported objects.

I simply added a Timer() call on the object report function to force an explosion right away.

This also brings down to 0% the chance of surviving a mined tele if somebody crossed it using a super booster (i'd say around 1 out of 4 managed to get thru without dying).


==========
The old method consisted on running RadiusActors iterators, i guess that's another reason the processing was moved to Timers instead of Ticks... imagine 40 mines running those iterators on each frame.

Feralidragon
03-27-2013, 04:22 PM
Question,

Can't this whole dumb super mine glitch thing be avoided by checking the Touch() event instead of the silly method it uses now? I haven't used Touch() event enough to know the ins and outs of it but isn't efficient in the sense that it doesn't need the actor list? I bet Ferali can answer that :) Also why don't we just replace super mines with mega mines?
We discussed how mines should be handled in some detail back in the day when Higor was just providing code reviews and not developing anything for real.

The biggest problem with Touch, it's the fact that Touch still activates even if the mine doesn't see you, but gets touched in its collision, which leads to the need of visibility checks, but then again the Touch list only allows for 4 actors to be registered, which means that by using a flak or any way to generate at least 4 actors within its collision would pretty much deactivate the mine for you, so you could pass safely.

Personally, with my own mines in my mod, what I did was to create a specific pawn list, and I add and remove pawns from it as the *valid* pawns (pawns which are valid enemies) touch and "untouch" the mine sensing field. It also has a Timer (running each 0.1 seconds), but which is only activated while there are pawns within it to check the moment they get visible, so the mine can explode.
Sure, this still opens a 0.1 seconds window when all the planets are aligned, and I could check things every tick in this case since the list is optimized and very small all the time, but I am not worried tbh since they're part of a weapon pack and not an actual gametype where they're critical.

Higor
03-27-2013, 04:38 PM
The touchers are registered in the Mine, with a proper valid enemy pawn array (8 elements).

On the timer:
Validity check (health, team) to discard a registered object.
Touch check (outside of the trigger's collision cylinder) to discard a registered object.
Distance check (touching the cylinder) to preserve the spheric explosion detection.
Visibility check at last (due to processing times) to trigger the explosion.

The array size isn't bad at all, since only living pawns outside of visibility and distance are kept in storage. (doubt 8 players will group behind an enemy supermined wall, if that's even possible at all).

HIGH[+]AdRiaN
03-27-2013, 06:29 PM
Using these tricks for win... your gameplay sucks, idk how you are moderator, camp all matches and keep using coward tatics like the one of this thread

|uK|B|aZe//.
03-27-2013, 07:03 PM
adrian i wouldnt talk about coward tactics and using every possible opportunity to your advantage. remember diego? or have you forgotten your so called ut tweaks that were in fact illegal? yeah thought so.

my point wasnt "tarring you with the same brush as SK" it was merely the same as chis' where you shouldnt be using exploits in public games when you know about it and what it can do to help your team. specially in maps where the tele leads to an enemies base.

Scourge
03-27-2013, 11:54 PM
Think this through people, you act like if he had haxed with chams and super aimbot or something.
Don't hackusate or accuse someone without proof... Yeah he may have admitted he tried an "exploit", but its nothing THAT critical....

Gather proof or evidence before that.

Just patch the S.Mine and this particular problem will be gone.

If you cant take any chances just put a watchman or something, just in case.

http://blightgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/2042609-phoenix_wright.jpg

][X][~FLuKE~][X][
03-28-2013, 06:51 AM
I NO way did i start this thread to accuse higor of cheating all the time or to question his loyalty to siege dev.

All i wanted was an answer to how he could pass through and fire a nuke in a mined tele as to me that shows the SM isnt doing his job properly, one time i would have put it down to luck but i counted 4 explosions that made it through the tele, of course using it in public isnt a good idea as its no different to a bot or other type of cheat that gives you advantage over the rest of the server but that doesnt make Higor a cheater or anything else derogatory, he didnt try to be sneaky and hide it, cant really conceal a nuke blast so therefore i dont see it as he did anything majorly wrong, just exploited a glitch in the SM and has now already announced it will be patched so its all good.

Innocent until proven guilty, so i think everyone needs to be thinking in a way that higor is doing nothing wrong, sure may be a bit trigger happy with kicks or w/e sometimes but no one has the right to blatantly accuse someone of wrongdoing, that is out of order to do.


remember, piss off a developer or insult them to bad and you will lose them, there are not very many developers left any more, ferali has had enough of the UT community, i have built the last RocketX i am ever going to make, its just not worth it for the amount of shit we have to take being thrown at us like we are the communities bitch.


again i stress, Higor in no way tried to hide the glitch, so imo it was just "wonder if i can do it again" kind of thinking, cheaters or people using hacks do their best to hide them.

i firmly believe anyone who has insulted or accused Higor in this thread of serious cheating needs to apologise to him.

audiosonic
03-28-2013, 09:33 AM
This reminds me, there's a secret tele spot in CTF-Kanjar inside the truck, exploit it while you can.

Banny
03-29-2013, 12:56 AM
The one in the lava? eh really?

nOs*Wildcard
03-29-2013, 01:05 AM
Touch() has a limit of four grrrrr... That's stupid. no wonder why it's not a very good alternative. I forgot about the code review for mines Ferail my bad.
Still thou put in the Mega Mines Higor :biggrin: Hahah the're GREAT! Ask MiniWick! depending on what level they are at they explode in a Level 2 nuke to Level 4 and an Ultima Protos explosion!!! I love the BANG from the old protos Ferali hahahahah!

[R]^Osyris
03-29-2013, 03:52 AM
Touch() has a limit of four grrrrr... That's stupid. no wonder why it's not a very good alternative. I forgot about the code review for mines Ferail my bad.
Still thou put in the Mega Mines Higor :biggrin: Hahah the're GREAT! Ask MiniWick! depending on what level they are at they explode in a Level 2 nuke to Level 4 and an Ultima Protos explosion!!! I love the BANG from the old protos Ferali hahahahah!

seriusly uk need watch more this "mod-admin" he make camp station, spam suplier, camp, and abuse the boucing, I HAVE THE DEMO OF THAT GAME AND THE SUPER MINE WAS LEVEL 5, HE KILL TWO SUPER MINES WITH THE SAME GLITCH, AND I TOLD HIM STOP THAT, BUT HE JUST CONTINUE... IM ONLY POST THE VIDEO HOW HE DO THAT IF SOMEONE MAKE A GOOD BAN FOR THIS APE:love_heart: YES HIGOR IS SAME LIKE KOALA.

][X][~FLuKE~][X][
03-29-2013, 05:59 AM
Bouncing is allowed on pub siege, its not allowed on the insta servers.

can i also add, how thick are you to insult and demand a ban on the ONLY siege developer?

I can see higor telling you to go fuck yourself soon if he gets flamed any more, he will follow mine and ferali's example and stop coding for a community that acts just like Osyris.

Once all developers/coders leave, then UT99 is destined for death.

Feralidragon
03-29-2013, 08:06 AM
UT99 is destined for death.
Quoted out of context for greater accuracy...
The problem is not only the community itself, but the lack of and the engine limitations. The fact that nowadays is extremely easy to just move to another engine and do your own (free) game without the limitations this one has dooms UT to end someday in the (near) future, specially with mobile getting stronger and stronger gaming-wise too (to which UT doesn't stand a chance).
For instance, UDK is far easier than I imagined it to be, and far more fun to toy with (scaleform already included, unreal cascade, possibility to include C++ code at will, almost same UScript structure as UT, etc...).

I strongly believe that Wildcard and Higor are the very last ones who will ever do anything Siege related, I am not seeing anyone else taking it from there, at least no one as knowledgeable at least, since someone with such knowledge will either do things for UT because they're hardcore fans, or move on to something far more entertaining and less frustrating to work with such as UDK or other.

|uK|Chronox
03-29-2013, 04:46 PM
Siege for Unreal Tournament 3 then ? :3

SAM
03-29-2013, 05:29 PM
Siege for Unreal Tournament 3 then ? :3

UT3 is even more dead. UT is not dead.

.seVered.][
03-30-2013, 12:08 AM
UT3 is even more dead. UT is not dead.

HERE! HERE! Pour this 'Pillar of the Community' a drink, and make it a double.

nOs*Wildcard
03-30-2013, 02:33 AM
UT3 is even more dead. UT is not dead.
EPIC FAIL lol

][X][~FLuKE~][X][
03-30-2013, 05:35 AM
I have UT3 and i think i have amounted to 3 hours total play time lol.... UT3 may be a flop but the UEngine3 isnt and i think that is what ferali is pointing out, personally if i could see UT99 remade, i would like to see how it turns out using the new CryEngine, crysis3 may be easy (completed it in a 2 days) but the effects and world are stunning.


excellent translation of my comment ferali, pretty much got my thoughts exactly right, thats why you have to think clever instead of throw this in throw that in then those believing they are "L33T", when in reality, pressing buttons with your left hand and moving your right hand a few inches and clicking buttons now and then which is all any of us are doing is not really something to be big headed about, calling someone a noob because they cant press buttons as well as you isnt something to shout about, just saying..lol

what there can be done, just like me knowing i cant push the RocketX any further, i have hit the limits of the engine (i know this because its based off of feralis NW3 core which is as much as the UT engine can do, the only programmer i know that has reached the UT99 engine limits) so what any developer is doing for you now.....APPRECIATE it or you will hasten the demise of UT99, dont think you are above anyone by yelling and accusing them of shit.

Higor and Severed have spent countless hours testing out new functions for YOU, the community, dont fuck it up by getting a bug up your ass and yelling at the developer, you are only shooting yourself in the foot.

just my 2 cents.

Shotman
03-30-2013, 03:14 PM
just stop and think of past clans/communtiea that have died. For starter i could think of other things that a community has died off, let me state those: crappy and abusive admins (VDS and SDA), crappy server (|WS|, cheaters (SDA) or whining players that just runaway the good players off (OFB). Also game developers can easily kill a community not of them just dissappearing but of them going overboard with massive changes or just taking advantage of glitches that normal players. I for one, don't really trust giving admin to a game developer because they know stuff that we do not know.

Novak
03-30-2013, 04:38 PM
Am glad Higor is keeping this going and enjoys it. Obviously the issue was something that couldn't continue and is now dealt with. Big deal if he has some exploits in his arsenal, he's not a pro but a decent player. The benefits of his service outweigh any of those trivial costs. If it gets out of hand post it here and people can agree to have the exploit removed. Keep an eye on his activities on the server and report it if you feel he abuses something, but at least do so respectfully.

Also, am personally not a fan of 'bouncing' and think the feature should be removed or banned from use. Higor and Blackshoot are the only decent players who do it these days. Those are has-been tactics, IMO.

Higor
03-30-2013, 06:02 PM
You guys ever played CTF-OutworldHold?
I bet some of those who had noticed the item named "Booby Trap".

This is precisely the use a booby trap has:
Destroy a supermine after dying on it, or suicide and take another player with you (if you stand near him).

Without the EMP, the Booby Trap sounds really good for cheap kamikaze tactics.

][X][~FLuKE~][X][
03-30-2013, 08:33 PM
make it so it blows your legs off!... then you have 1 second before shock sets in and kills you.:sneakiness:

Shotman
08-12-2013, 02:59 AM
sorry for reviving this but he did the exploit again on simplex today

Chamberly
08-12-2013, 03:16 AM
Broken? After some updates? lol...

Some code can interfere with other codes that cause it not to work properly. & I hate that when it happened to me when I'm practically doing coding.

Higor
08-12-2013, 01:04 PM
I keep throwing myself into your supermine every-single-time my team nukes for a reason.
I noticed that your team didn't upgrade above level 3, so... I can survive the first explosion with Full Health + Shield + Toxin suit.

Bottom line is, upgrade the supermine to 5 or you'll give me a nice time window to blast it.

Chamberly
08-12-2013, 03:19 PM
I noticed that your team didn't upgrade above level 3, so... I can survive the first explosion with Full Health + Shield + Toxin suit.

Lmao interesting. I'm gonna have to try it.

][X][~FLuKE~][X][
08-13-2013, 04:32 PM
I keep throwing myself into your supermine every-single-time my team nukes for a reason.
I noticed that your team didn't upgrade above level 3, so... I can survive the first explosion with Full Health + Shield + Toxin suit.

Bottom line is, upgrade the supermine to 5 or you'll give me a nice time window to blast it.

just curious, How does a toxin suit protect you from a SM blast?

Higor
08-13-2013, 04:56 PM
+50 armor, shotman hit me once with rifle on my way to the tele and that kept my overall 'health' above 400.