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][X][~FLuKE~][X][
10-24-2015, 08:03 AM
I think I have mentioned this before but got ignored so lets see if it gets overlooked again.

Can a block be introduced to RC's, bio and mortar bombs to only be available once SS and SHP has been built by both teams.

Maps getting decimated before they really get going is absolutely pointless just because someone is obsessed with looking the "best" by killing the core at the start of the match asap, 1 person ruins the game for all the others playing and also wrecks a map that cannot be voted for again right away.

I get the point is to kill the core, but come on..... how the hell is spawning RC's skill before the match has even got started? Players that do this make me want to banslap them.

Siege

noun
1.
the act or process of surrounding and attacking a fortified place in such a way as to isolate it from help and supplies, for the purpose of lessening the resistance of the defenders and thereby making capture possible.
2.
any prolonged or persistent effort to overcome resistance.


key word in the definition "FORTIFIED", not completely open with next to no defence. If I have open access to attack the core I always stop hitting it if my RU is maxed out then leave the core alone. Pisses me off when others can't do the same and get obsessed with "glory"

So either a restriction within the code or be allowed to kick them out for a few matches classed as a minor offence.

|uK|Tomahawk
10-24-2015, 10:25 AM
I agree on this, when I used to play regularly on PUBLIC SERVER sometimes games would end WAYYYYYY to fast because of people doing precisely this. Although I think instead of restricting them to be built AFTER SS AND SH, how about after 1 or the other?

If the game has gotten to the point where a ss or sh is made, that's when we should be able to make rcs,bios,morters,etc. It would stop rushers and urge the importance of making ss,sh before going full on Rambo mode.

audiosonic
10-24-2015, 04:51 PM
Should we make the core invulnerable the first 10 minutes, because lets be honest, don't you hate it when the enemy gets to hit your core without having 20 mines and 5 super protectors on it? Like fluke said by DEFINITION siege is attacking a FORTIFIED BASE, not one that's completely open with no defenses. It's easy to nitpick isn't it ;).

Leave the tactics open to the public, hell even if you wanted a warhead before a super supplier it should be your choice, just because the l33t players fortify their base before they build warheads, doesn't mean us filthy casuals should be forced into their habits?!?

Higor
10-24-2015, 06:56 PM
doesn't mean us filthy casuals should be forced into their habits?!?
X-Player's nuke has been taken down by Scourge!
Higor is raging at his useless teammate for wasting 1300 RU before the door has a Super Container

--- Updated ---


[X][~FLuKE~][X][_{HoF};100709]Can a block be introduced to RC's, bio and mortar bombs to only be available once SS and SHP has been built by both teams.

Hah, things are unexpetedly going this direction.
The solution has been there for ages, it's called CacusTech, sure it's outdated but this profile limits builds to techtrees based on what you build.

Some changes I'll be adding to 0020's SiegePub (my version):
- Hyper Leecher: 275 RU, requires Level 5 Core, 1s build
- Ape Cannon: 800 RU
- Dampener: 100 RU
- Explosive classes: add "requires visible builder flag" to prevent through wall building.
- EMP Bomb: 100s cooldown, overtime only, 2000 RU
- Neutron Bomb: 100s cooldown, overtime only, 10000 RU
- MiniShield (0020 version): limit to 4
- Antigravity Gear (described on a different post)
- Container: requires Supplier
- Health Pod: requires Supplier

|uK|kenneth
10-24-2015, 07:46 PM
10thousend for neutron
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/59575206.jpg


does it even make sense making it and losing 8000ru?

evilserpentman
10-24-2015, 11:56 PM
Honestly Fluke, you may as well just say you want people to tank the game until you catch up, that's how your phrasing is coming off.

Sure, a treaty period would be great for some, but actively penalizing people for being good is a bit shitty.
I know its the way things go around here, but the subject opinion of a few should not dictate how things work.

Higor
10-25-2015, 12:31 AM
My way of handling this, for 0020:


Hyper Leecher build modifications:
- Cost: 275 RU
- Build time: 1 second
- Changed damage reduction from 66% to 75%
** Effective HP changes from 600 to 800
** Effective container heal changes from 3x to 4x
"Hyper Leecher binds are your way to show disapproval of explosive spammers"
I'm definetely having one of these binds for quick field cleanup and nuke support, let alone defense in butchered games.

][X][~FLuKE~][X][
10-25-2015, 11:22 AM
Honestly Fluke, you may as well just say you want people to tank the game until you catch up, that's how your phrasing is coming off.

Sure, a treaty period would be great for some, but actively penalizing people for being good is a bit shitty.
I know its the way things go around here, but the subject opinion of a few should not dictate how things work.

You seem to have misunderstood my "phrasing".

It does not take skill to spawn RC's, being "Good" as you put it plays no part in it like in Clarion for example, just like it doesn't take skill to spam a supplier yet this is on the same level as far as the game being disrupted, please explain how any player would be penalized for skill when the subject is Rocket Cannons? (Skill needed is to click mouse button once and stand still, then repeat). l33t players are the ones that do this most of the time to assfuck a game and normally to make it worse, they leave the server right after.

Hit the core with weapons to your hearts content which in turn gives the opposing team the chance to defend themselves, spawning RC's will decimate a low level core in seconds with little chance to stop it, Tie this in with the game only active for about 10 minutes, then you have a map that has been wasted and has no point to it.

I show sportsmanship and like a good game which I emphasize in the first post, this appears to be lost in this game with a lot of people here, it is not dictating how anyone else should play, I am asking purely to improve the game for EVERYONE at the start, how is this a bad thing?

This for me is just like Spamming the supplier, you can't get weapons to retaliate and you are powerless to stop it unless someone intervenes and removes the sup spammer. How about the rules get changed to see sup spam as a "Tactic", does that sound fair? after all, it serves the purpose of killing the enemy so they can't defend the core and I would hate to infringe on their rights to play any way they wish. :rolleyes:

Why is waiting 10 or so minutes for RC ability such a problem? it serves to improve the game for everyone involved.

Ever watched a youtube video that is ten minutes long thinking it was going to be good only for it to be crap? then think after "That's 10 minutes of my life I will never get back". This is the same.

Skarn
10-25-2015, 11:43 AM
[X][~FLuKE~][X][_{HoF};100754](Skill needed is to click mouse button once and stand still, then repeat).

Skilled players use binds instead.

Scourge
10-26-2015, 02:36 PM
This change would massively improve the game... If you really like Siege to be biased even further toward fragging ability, and by fragging ability I mean sniping ability.

Labeling explosives as the problem is myopic. One has to ask why a person is able to reach the core and spam explosives enough to cause significant damage in the first place. Nine times out of ten, it's because the teams are stacked, and when it isn't, it's because the losing team's defense and/or tactics are poor.

There's a reason players like Skarn can beat me easily just by placing an early super protector near their core, and players like Finfet - despite being a far superior sniper - can lose to me on a map like BlackRiver since he doesn't take steps to secure his base.

Skarn
10-26-2015, 03:31 PM
This change would massively improve the game... If you really like Siege to be biased even further toward fragging ability, and by fragging ability I mean sniping ability.

Labeling explosives as the problem is myopic. One has to ask why a person is able to reach the core and spam explosives enough to cause significant damage in the first place. Nine times out of ten, it's because the teams are stacked, and when it isn't, it's because the losing team's defense and/or tactics are poor.

There's a reason players like Skarn can beat me easily just by placing an early super protector near their core, and players like Finfet - despite being a far superior sniper - can lose to me on a map like BlackRiver since he doesn't take steps to secure his base.

In some cases even when its secured, the people on public are too blind to even see someone reaching their core. Keeping an eye out all the time can be tiring, but it pays off.

|uK|kenneth
10-26-2015, 03:34 PM
In some cases even when its secured, the people on public are too blind to even see someone reaching their core. Keeping an eye out all the time can be tiring, but it pays off.

have you also mentioned that noobs Always get the the core without getting seen?

Skarn
10-26-2015, 03:53 PM
have you also mentioned that noobs Always get the the core without getting seen?

Isn't that what I just said?

Chamberly
10-26-2015, 04:00 PM
Isn't that what I just said?

I thought it was just included?

Scourge
10-26-2015, 04:06 PM
Said noobs can rarely do significant damage to the core with just one protector in place. If your opponent can afford a rocket cannon, you can probably afford an SP.

Higor
10-26-2015, 05:21 PM
A certain australian player always manages to get to my core, he alone forces me to stay guarding the goddamn area and it gets on my nerves.
So yes, noobs or not certain ppl will always manage to damage your core if you don't have eyes on your back.

|uK|kenneth
10-26-2015, 05:27 PM
Isn't that what I just said?


yeah you did. just pointing out that ONLY noobs reach our core you won't see danger blaze fleece etc walking to the core without getting seen. its as if we have a tracker on our back

][X][~FLuKE~][X][
10-26-2015, 07:34 PM
Labeling explosives as the problem is myopic. One has to ask why a person is able to reach the core and spam explosives enough to cause significant damage in the first place. Nine times out of ten, it's because the teams are stacked, and when it isn't, it's because the losing team's defense and/or tactics are poor..

I am labelling explosives as "A" problem, not "The" problem, there are more than I can count when it comes to player etiquette and play styles. Sportsmanship has gone and been replaced with troll like actions with an incessant need to win at all cost while not giving a damn about anyone else, Any of these players would end the game in a heartbeat even if the match has only just started, just to be the one to kill the core while maintaining "That is what you are meant to do".

There is nothing in the game that can do as much damage as an RC at close range to the core, especially a low level core, The example map I already gave where it happens often is Clarion. It doesn't necessarily mean teams are stacked or most on one team are not seasoned players, all it takes is for 3/4+ of the team to leave the base to attack at once, this gives plenty of time for someone to get in and spawn RC's on the core, You cannot get in to stop them or destroy the cannons because you get killed instantly when you walk in the door. It is irrelevant saying "they should have learnt how to defend/attack/build better" as a comeback for one player wrecking a game with absolutely no gain apart from self glory, it is not a valid response in the realistic sense.

Here is an example to show you how I see the above response....

Man and child are walking down the road and you feel hot, the kid is carrying an ice cream. Do you snatch the kids ice cream and then say "The Dad and kid should have protected it better"? just because you CAN do something does not mean you SHOULD do it.
Those who find this funny and want to troll comment are the exact types that I reference who mangle the game etiquette and the most likely to get knocked out by the Dad, sadly that is most of the player base who stand out within siege.

The point is it happens a lot and putting a block on them will stop it dead in its tracks, there is absolutely nothing positive about doing this to a match, no reason can justify how RC'ing a core before a match even gets under way properly is a good thing to the point it has to even be debated!

The only person who will have their "Rights" snipped is those willing to destroy the game for a few seconds of self loving glory.

Scourge
10-26-2015, 08:14 PM
I don't think I have seen one match that wasn't stacked or that didn't have spawn laming where this actually applies. Maybe you could post a demo?

|uK|B|aZe//.
10-27-2015, 03:31 AM
if only I have demos from the old days to show scourge how good siege used to be and how many retards and how dogshit it is now (not blaming anyone for the second part)

][X][~FLuKE~][X][
10-27-2015, 09:09 AM
I don't think I have seen one match that wasn't stacked or that didn't have spawn laming where this actually applies. Maybe you could post a demo?

I do not record any matches unless there is a moderator situation happening.
Think of a team with low ball players but they have camillo/adrian/other seasoned player, the other team are fairly balanced, That team realise it is easy to take out the other team and all start to attack because of how easy it is, camillo slips in quite easy and RC's the core after building a container to block the door, the tactic is a good move, the timing of it isn't, it is just ending it for the sake of ending it, there is no satisfaction. Are you seriously telling me you haven't seen anything like this and need a demo to prove it? If you want to include stacked in this example then you could say yes, stacked if the outcome was the stacked team to RC the core, in this example the low skill team obliterate the core. Stacked or not, it is irrelevant, its ending any map really early before it gets going by a single player.

You are seasoned enough to see pretty much every type of play to ever be used in game, there is no way you could recollect a specific game you have played when this happens, just like I can't recollect you doing this.

I wish someone would explain why mangling the core right away is satisfying in a game?, why is it a good thing to dominate a low skilled team? I have asked this so many times but the questions are always dodged.

The sentence that I never see in siege any more is "Give them a chance", this shows sportsmanship. The sentence that pisses me off the most and is ridiculous as a point is "I don't want to be stuck hours playing a single map" It is siege, that is how it is done, all matches are not meant to end within 10 minutes. But as there is no team wide strategy in some maps, this creates a stalemate situation until coincidence allows a breakthrough, Simplex would be a good example.

The reason itself for this request is it to stop some games unnecessarily ending before they have even started, if siege was meant to end early then there would be no use for larger more expensive builds located in the constructor.
Those who don't like this request dance around the reason for it being mentioned.

another way would be to make the core invulnerable but still give out the same RU if attacked, but again the seasoned players whine they cant destroy the core when they want and stamp their feet demanding they have the "Right" to do what they want.

One thing that has fascinated me for a while is the UK Instagib servers in comparison, They have very strict rules which must be followed, yet a siege match is more relaxed than someone with incontinence which allows all the shit to pour out and mess the game up.

|uK|chiseller
10-27-2015, 11:00 AM
If someone manages to sneak into the core and deploy a rc without getting seen, thus doing heavy damage then I applaud him for that.
Yes, that is the game's goal. It might not be as satisfying as ending a 2 hour game all by yourself because you haven't invested as much time into it but that doesn't take away the fact that it was a good move.
Of course, it's a different story with unbalanced teams. There's no glory in doing it but I rather have someone finish my core and have proper teams next map.

Bottom line
If rc is overpowered, so is ripper hs on buildings and dmging cores should never be frowned upon.

Scourge
10-27-2015, 11:55 AM
if only I have demos from the old days to show scourge how good siege used to be and how many retards and how dogshit it is now (not blaming anyone for the second part)

Do you think changing the game mechanics would improve it?


Of course, it's a different story with unbalanced teams. There's no glory in doing it but I rather have someone finish my core and have proper teams next map.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on unbalanced teams. At least it will end quickly with explosives instead of being a protracted, erm, domination.


this creates a stalemate situation until coincidence allows a breakthrough, Simplex would be a good example.

In my eyes, this isn't really a good game mechanic at all. It comes down to mid luck/fragging ability until someone gets enough midspawns, or critical people get tired of playing, or the teams get changed after a lot of raging or simple boredom, or a losing team unnecessarily protracts a match that they have no odds of winning.

Like I've said before, this isn't so much about LOL I KILL UR CORE EZ NOOB, this is more about making the game change and evolve as it goes on so that gameplay doesn't become "Get nuke, fail, farm, die, farm, die, die, die, die, farm, build nuke, fail" or "Build mine, farm, build mine, farm, build mine, farm" or "spam sniper, spam sniper, spam sniper", and for all, rinse and repeat, for six hours. Overtime matches are defined by action, yet they're still stagnant.

Chamberly
10-27-2015, 03:06 PM
"Get nuke, fail, farm, die, farm, die, die, die, die, farm, build nuke, fail" or "Build mine, farm, build mine, farm, build mine, farm" or "spam sniper, spam sniper, spam sniper", and for all, rinse and repeat, for six hours.

ROFL!! It would be like that but I don't always think of it, I like strategy set up play... need more smart maps. In fact maybe I'll try to set up a door that require a password with 4 numerical digits, upgrade that for more door protection and to the last, 4 numerical digits so if anyone can't get the door open, there have to be plenty of lockpicks or work on destorying a door.. oops off topic. /ignore lol.

Higor
10-27-2015, 03:30 PM
Ehhhrm...
- If your team fails to build a Supplier in the first 20 seconds then the game should end within the next 10 minutes.
- If the enemy team overruns your base and builds a health pod to ensure they don't die as fast, the game should end before minute 20.
- If the enemy team focuses your unfinished containers the game should end before minute 30
- If you have too many leeches in open spaces the game will certainly end right before overtime.

Siege's latest design was aimed at ending games at ANY stage, and making every single tactic counterable.
It's just that we're missing a few key elements here.
- Health Pod > allows early teleporter aggression
- Protector > RC defense and attacker detection
- Hyper Leecher, the 0020 changes should make it viable again.

In my opinion I'd totally be fine with inflating prices so that the game doesn't jump into the final stages so quickly.
Just imagine how games would go if:
- Super Supplier > 3000 RU
- Super Health Pod > 3000 RU
- Super Container > 3200 RU
- Poison Guardian > 1600 RU
- ForceField > 2400 RU
- Warhead > 1600 RU
- Invincible Warhead > 2300 RU
- Add SupplierX > 800 RU (change: supply rate doubled)
- Add Health Pod
- Add Protector (3k hp instead of 2k, limit 4)
- Add Guardian (double the center pull maybe?)
- Add ContainerX
- Pulse Rifle < 600 RU
- Add Fragmentation Launcher > 600 RU

This pretty much brings back the most of the first Siege's playability for the first 30 minutes of the game and excepting for the mid spawn rules, it would totally be compatible with pugs.

Scourge
10-27-2015, 04:33 PM
I think just adding more tiers to building beyond SS-SHP-SC would be a better direction than trying to inflate what we already have. Part of what makes the game compelling is being able to reach further stages in hopes of staying ahead of your opponents, without spending too much time doing filler stuff (run all the way across the map, fill up slowly in supplier, stand still while repairing core, etc.)

Chamberly
10-27-2015, 05:10 PM
inflating prices

Holy RU, so much for ss/shp/sc hahahaha.

|uK|kenneth
10-27-2015, 05:32 PM
- Super Supplier > 3000 RU
- Super Health Pod > 3000 RU
- Super Container > 3200 RU
- Poison Guardian > 1600 RU
- ForceField > 2400 RU
- Warhead > 1600 RU
- Invincible Warhead > 2300 RU

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/shut-up-and-talk-to-my-hand.png

][X][~FLuKE~][X][
10-27-2015, 07:08 PM
If someone manages to sneak into the core and deploy a rc without getting seen, thus doing heavy damage then I applaud him for that.
Yes, that is the game's goal. It might not be as satisfying as ending a 2 hour game all by yourself because you haven't invested as much time into it but that doesn't take away the fact that it was a good move.
Of course, it's a different story with unbalanced teams. There's no glory in doing it but I rather have someone finish my core and have proper teams next map.

Bottom line
If rc is overpowered, so is ripper hs on buildings and dmging cores should never be frowned upon.

Damage to the core isn't the issue, you cannot possibly compare the RC at close range to any weapon, RC can obliterate the core, that is a ridiculous comparison to make.

Some people are happy with any map so think like you by hoping teams next map are better with a "meh, no loss, shit team" just like you and ironically like those who clicked dislike to the suggestion. But the part you are not thinking about is why the map was voted, some people may have been waiting a few hours for that map to become unlocked so it can be voted for, insignificant players not good enough to care about. "Map is changing, get over it, tough shit"

What if a few stepped away from PC when the map switched, started and missed the first minute or two? everyone has done it, Come on chis, it doesn't take skill to get in the core in clarion without being noticed, its luck all the way. This is purely about RC for the first 10 minutes, not core damage. You are saying you applaud someone who is lucky enough to not get spotted, then spawn an RC to do all the work and finish the game. Those who were looking forward to playing that map do not matter. Siege is about team play, not a single players glory. There is no skill in doing this as well as no point.

I know your usual attitude is dilligaf or Nogaf, incredibly bias towards any complaint regarding game play different to how you like it, that is no secret and is fully expected if you responded, It was a request that would not handicap the game in the slightest, it would simply stop RC being spawned for 10 minutes, why the fuck are so many here acting all butthurt like I have suggested to take away Trans and jetpack.?

Supplier is limited at the start instead of being able to build SS right away, this is somehow different to the reasons for that? RC is far too overpowered for the beginning stage of the game, just like SS.

Showing my age I guess, Sportsmanship is included with how I play and have played for more than a decade, now it appears I should go sit on my rocking chair and put on my slippers and maybe piss myself a little to get the old man aroma more realistic and realise my outdated view is not shared by many any more.

'Zac
10-27-2015, 07:44 PM
Should we make the core invulnerable the first 10 minutes, because lets be honest, don't you hate it when the enemy gets to hit your core without having 20 mines and 5 super protectors on it? Like fluke said by DEFINITION siege is attacking a FORTIFIED BASE, not one that's completely open with no defenses. It's easy to nitpick isn't it ;).

Leave the tactics open to the public, hell even if you wanted a warhead before a super supplier it should be your choice, just because the l33t players fortify their base before they build warheads, doesn't mean us filthy casuals should be forced into their habits?!?

http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/TheZac12/myng_zpsce593d15.jpg (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/TheZac12/media/myng_zpsce593d15.jpg.html)

Scourge
10-28-2015, 03:16 AM
[X][~FLuKE~][X][;100895']...

IronMaiden Mizex

So look, I was playing this game of Butchered yesterday against a slightly disadvantaged team. Neither team had any particularly strong fraggers. It quickly turned into a very offensive match, with both teams attempting to spam explosives on the other's core. Both cores had the ever-loving crap beaten out of them, in the low 30's by the time the supers were up. It was a constant scramble and fun as hell, evolving quickly from all the RU pouring in and helping to grow the base from the explosives and raising the stakes by bringing the core well out of the comfort zone.

I can't speak for everyone else in that match, but for me, those "cheap" pre-SS explosives didn't make the match shitty, they made it faster-paced and actually fun.

I'll say it 'til I'm blue in the face: A person getting into critical parts of the base without being seen is never luck, except when there is a stack. A person being able to get into the base and repeatedly spam explosives to the point of being fatal is DEFINITELY not luck, unless it is a stack.

If this is really about the "little guy's" map passing too quickly, try this first:

- Fix the balancer
- Engage kickidlers at the start of EVERY game
- Make sure to always secure and never abandon the base

And see how things turn out.

][X][~FLuKE~][X][
10-28-2015, 08:01 AM
I am never going to agree with anyone here on this subject, your example is poor and is "luck" that both teams could RC the cores, either way, that made the game balanced and isn't the issue. It is when the game is one sided and RC's are used to kill a core at the start of the match before it gets going by a single person. Getting in is luck, back to clarion..... 4 enemy players all appear on the left which distracts them from the core for a few seconds, another enemy player does not know his team are on the other side and distracting, he then runs into the core and sets off RC's, This is luck, he got in due to lucky timing. I know you and most people want to believe it is all skill and if it were, then you would never fail at nuking or defending or simple attacking

I believe a massive amount in this game is luck, where other players are in relation to a move you attempt, if the other team are on form with those that have a decent shot, you simply cannot use skill to know all of those variables, skill is learning how to do your best, skill isn't overcoming anybody else as skill cannot predict what will actually happen, if you nuke and die hitting a mine means you were unlucky. This is my thought process with this game, based from my own playing ability, some days I may be on the ball and not get anything wrong, other days I fail badly, its about how lucky I get combined with skill. Every single game that exist be it computer related or physical has luck involved as well as skill.

- Fix the balancer
- Engage kickidlers at the start of EVERY game
- Make sure to always secure and never abandon the base

so instead of limiting just one thing that wont really have any impact on the game as most of the time RC's are not spawned on a core is such a huge problem, Your comeback is to suggest 3 different things?, some players don't read the forum so can't have a voice and cannot read what you have to "Do at the start of every game", My firm belief is players shouldn't have change to suit the game type if there is an inherent problem where one destroys it. The team balance doesn't matter, there will always be one who will glory hunt with the "Fuck everyone else" attitude.

Everyone so far has danced around my questions of

1. Why is a delaying RC cannons for 10 or so minutes such a massive problem? I have never seen so many act so completely over the top over a simple suggestion, its like I have announced the change is actually happening!

2. What is the actual gratification of a cheap win?, the best I have seen as a celebration if any is a simple sarcastic seeming "lel"

This is matter of opinion which has become massively one sided, it is a suggestion from how I see the games played with low to mid skilled players from a spectator perspective. That makes me deserve to be hated on in such a strong manner?

You win, case closed.

Everyone else who isn't a seasoned player has to put up with it or GTFO and cry somewhere else.....got it. :rolleyes:

|uK|Rays
10-28-2015, 09:57 AM
I think it just boils down to siege having the same patterns regardless of the situation. You can't fault players for using the best possible way to damage the core, RCs work their best when there aren't super pros built in the enemy base ie first 10 mins of the game. That being said, I agree RCs do a lot of damage for minimal effort, especially considering the binds that people use now, but you're too focused on these supposed elitist attitudes and motives behind using RCs early in the game. I'm at work so I won't go into detail, but for anyone who's been playing a respectable amount of time, the patterns in siege are very noticeable and easy to follow.

Skarn
10-28-2015, 12:03 PM
If you're good at defending and watch everything what happens in your base, RC's on core won't really happen because the enemy won't reach your core in the first place, and even if they do, they're probably 10 hp and some ape is going to minigun him down in a second or two, with the RC being ripper headshotted and easily killed. But ofcourse when you're in a team filled with people who don't really pay attention, some things go unnoticed, like someone taking down a sp in bathrooms tunnel. In that case I'd like to put a motion alarm right in the sc above tunnel so I can quickly respond. Fluke, I suggest you stop wasting your energy on this RC restriction, because it ain't gonna happen, and if it happens, there'd be much more complaining than there is now (which is bassicly only you).


Offtopic: Why were motion alarms removed? Kinda miss them.

|uK|fleecey
10-28-2015, 01:29 PM
If you're good at defending and watch everything what happens in your base, RC's on core won't really happen because the enemy won't reach your core in the first place, and even if they do, they're probably 10 hp and some ape is going to minigun him down in a second or two, with the RC being ripper headshotted and easily killed. But ofcourse when you're in a team filled with people who don't really pay attention, some things go unnoticed, like someone taking down a sp in bathrooms tunnel. In that case I'd like to put a motion alarm right in the sc above tunnel so I can quickly respond. Fluke, I suggest you stop wasting your energy on this RC restriction, because it ain't gonna happen, and if it happens, there'd be much more complaining than there is now (which is bassicly only you).


Offtopic: Why were motion alarms removed? Kinda miss them.

When they decided to remove the nuke siren, they decided to remove motion alarm too, I miss it as well

Higor
10-28-2015, 01:57 PM
Motion Alarms were cancerous in maps like Bluevember.
If this build is ever coming back in it's old form, then the alert shouldn't be global but instead ambient sound so that only nearby players respond to it.
Unless... the motion alarm sticks to the wall like a door jammer and instead detects players passing through a cone (starting from the alarm itself), then global would be fine there.

|uK|kenneth
10-28-2015, 02:56 PM
well if motion alarm comes back it should be easier to kill then it was since it can warn people.
second nuke siren was good and would still be good in maps like bathrooms i mean how many times do you fail nuking with trans belt boots etc? you barely fail at it unless there are noobs camping the fuck out of it and wait for people to nuke. but when it comes to maps like bluevember i think it should be disabled or smt.

IronMaiden
10-28-2015, 03:43 PM
IronMaiden Mizex

So look, I was playing this game of Butchered yesterday against a slightly disadvantaged team. Neither team had any particularly strong fraggers. It quickly turned into a very offensive match, with both teams attempting to spam explosives on the other's core. Both cores had the ever-loving crap beaten out of them, in the low 30's by the time the supers were up. It was a constant scramble and fun as hell, evolving quickly from all the RU pouring in and helping to grow the base from the explosives and raising the stakes by bringing the core well out of the comfort zone.

I can't speak for everyone else in that match, but for me, those "cheap" pre-SS explosives didn't make the match shitty, they made it faster-paced and actually fun.

I'll say it 'til I'm blue in the face: A person getting into critical parts of the base without being seen is never luck, except when there is a stack. A person being able to get into the base and repeatedly spam explosives to the point of being fatal is DEFINITELY not luck, unless it is a stack.

If this is really about the "little guy's" map passing too quickly, try this first:

- Fix the balancer
- Engage kickidlers at the start of EVERY game
- Make sure to always secure and never abandon the base

And see how things turn out.


Nailed and signed 100%.

PS: Siege is grown well. There are only a few things that need improvement:

- balancer needs to be refined

- kick idlers and AFK asshats quicker

- more mods need to keep an eye on all games and remove player who have nothing else on mind than screwing up matches

- prevent this fake name / name change every day and stack bullshit from down south

Scourge
10-28-2015, 04:29 PM
[X][~FLuKE~][X][;100940]1. Why is a delaying RC cannons for 10 or so minutes such a massive problem?

It would appear to me that people like both super fast and long games. Rocket cannons end stacked matches quickly (or help teams that have been dominated catch up with a little bit of stealth and/or thanks to overly offensive play on the stronger team's part), help small bases grow quickly; and help apply pressure quickly. It's for those reasons that people would say "Hell no", not because they now suddenly can't abuse inexperienced players. Explosives are just as much a tool for the underdog as they are sledgehammers for the type of players you have a problem with.


2. What is the actual gratification of a cheap win?, the best I have seen as a celebration if any is a simple sarcastic seeming "lel"

I don't actually get a lot of satisfaction out of playing an obviously stacked game on either side, though I've done more than my share of play of both types. What I do know is that I don't like protracted farming through basic gameplay, which is what Siege promises late-game on maps like BlueVember, McSwartzly, or BathroomsUltimate, which is why quick wins are preferable to many of us on these maps.


My firm belief is players shouldn't have change to suit the game type if there is an inherent problem where one destroys it

How this reads to me is that you think people should have license to leave their base to go on offense without the consequences quickly proving fatal, otherwise it's a problem because someone doesn't get to enjoy playing his overly offensive preference on a map he might or might not have specifically have been waiting for. The world may not revolve around players with more relative skill or experience, but it definitely shouldn't revolve around players who can't apply simple common sense to attack and defense.

When I said it's not luck that determines how people get in, I didn't mean "look at how skilled I am because of my score", I meant "this defending team lacks awareness and good defensive technique." This of course doesn't apply when one team's fragging ability far exceeds the other to the point that even an attempt at defense is impossible. That to me is the real problem that needs solving, not the ability to steamroll the core in the early game if it's left open.

2645

][X][~FLuKE~][X][
10-29-2015, 10:17 AM
Apart from the last part the questions have been answered so I can actually see with my own eyes what the stone wall is all about with this suggestion.

The last part I mean a single player has forced the end of the match, all the others wanted to continue to make it worth playing in the first place, they shouldn't have to mould around that kind of result as it is one person who has decided to end it early, against 16+ players who wanted it to at least be enjoyable which makes it a strong majority against. Just like say 13 players vote for Clarion and one person votes for butchered.... then the map that wins is butchered. That to me is the point I am trying to make, do not confuse it with a single player ending the game at all stages of a match, just the first 10 minutes to allow it to get up and running and make it a fair fight, its a sucker punch, a win but still a cheap shot.

It was never a complaint as such, it was a suggestion due to a result in a pattern of behaviour on the server I have noticed, I don't like how a match is ended in that manner but I have not posted it as a complaint like it has been twisted into. I say the "Leets" or skilled players as that is the only type that RC the core, the average player doesn't think of RC's and bio's the core. Ironic as it is only those I consider skilled players who are objecting.

If I have an opinion I will not mince my words and it will be said in a raw blunt manner, I do not care if that offends anyone. I can have a debate where it may get heated at times like this thread, but it never ends up with a personal animosity towards anyone involved, if someone has a valid and fair argument against my opinion then I will respect that and show I respect it. This thread has a lack of that until the last few posts above.

I will never be bias whether it is my own opinion or not. I will put through any suggestions I feel will make the game a better experience for all classes of players, the problem is most of those I have in mind do not use the forum, no-one can blame or attack me for trying to do that as a selfless suggestion.

The suggestion is clearly disliked with a vengeance, but at least now it is clear on the subject for all to read.

|uK|Rays
10-29-2015, 05:52 PM
I haven't played at all this past month or so but from what I recall pub games usually got past the 10 min mark and once there is a super protector up offense slowed down considerably. If it's gotten worse then the balancer really needs a re-work lol.

Back to what I was saying with siege's predictable gameplay, in a nutshell it goes 1. get super pro 2. get super sup/super health 3. nuke until you win (this isn't as bad in pugs, but it's still pretty close). Every pub game I've played these past few years seems to go down that way unless it's stacked as fuck. Once you figure out siege's bag of tricks it gets repetitive. Teles are the only thing that excite me because they involve the entire team and can be good at anytime, however there usefulness depends on the map and some luck. I think the RCs argument illustrates that some people have figured out what works and when it's most effective, that's all. That doesn't mean they're incredibly good, just more perceptive and willing to learn than the usual pub crowd. I understand wanting an even playing field at all stages of the game, but until innovation is a thing again it probably won't happen. Everyone knows I'm biased towards fragging over tactics, but that's because there's nothing impressive about trans nuking, spamming mines, or using RCs, tactics that have all been done to death.

I like to talk about gameplay issues so keep em comin, no feeling hurt over here, I retired a champ and everyone can suck my nuts. Jk love u all. Sorry for tangent.

Higor
10-29-2015, 07:12 PM
I got to play against one of the most defensive lineups ever in a Niven game, 7D-1O and the way to get past them was to constantly nuke the Super Protectors and force them to spend craptons of RU to rebuild.
They spent 100 minutes without a gate Super Container until their base fell, sure, I had to use 50 nukes and got a lot of RU assistance but thanks to that we kept their team trapped and controlled like rabid animals in a cage.

Sometimes, some ppl just doesn't want to have fun, and you stop them from achieving their evil plans by causing constant economic losses.
That way you level the playground in a way they're forced to go out and defend themselves.

Cella_V2
10-29-2015, 08:02 PM
TL;DR HEHEHE

No offense Higor, but not everyone enjoys doing the same thing for hours straight, definitely not on a map like niven.

Most games get past 10 minutes afaik. Not to mention that early RCs has its cons when destroyed before doing the damage.

Games dont get past 10 minutes if there are small teams (~10 or lower), or when teams are stacked to death from the start.

Bringing back the motion alarm removes the `sneaky` part of siege if you ask me..

|uK|fleecey
10-30-2015, 06:24 PM
- more mods need to keep an eye on all games

Lol