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View Full Version : FlameThrower rework - concepts:



Higor
02-09-2016, 04:41 PM
I'm halfway through done with a FlameThrower rework.
Given how it's mostly a 'lame' super weapon when used with Super Jetpacks, Translocators, etc; mostly used for RU farming than anything else. I've decided to touch said code for the first time.

** Notes:
- All damages are Base Damage = Damage before scaling is applied.
- Burn rate is 10hz.


Building Incineration:
- Each projectile can incinerate one build at a time.
- Prioritizes nearest, non-incinerated build.
** Trying to incinerate a cluster will require firing more than one once at it.
- All builds except mines will have 80 burn damage/s (was 100).
** Mines take 5 damage/s.

Generic Incineration:
- If directly hit, player will burn at 4 damage every 0.5 second.
- Burn timer is 7.51 seconds (15 damage instances max, 60 max)
- If hit more than once, burn is refreshed instead of reapplied.
** Try and hit as many ppl as possible instead of concentrating fire.
- Timer is canceled if player jumps into water.
- Touching a teammate while burning will set him on fire (NewTimer = Timer-1, short fires only).
- Can be applied on buildings too (same timer-touch effects).
** Extra little damage to builds if hit continuously.
** Punishes players trying to insta-repair.
- Repairable
** Repair other players if they're on fire.

Damage (incineration applied here):
- Added 20 base damage on hit (generic hit), now it can destroy decorations and open doors.
- Changed burn radius damage criterias as follow:
-- Radius burn damage changed from 40 to 10, can be applied on already incinerated builds.
-- Lookup radius changed from 64 to 72
-- Valid targets are either touching the projectiles or visible to it (no more burn through walls, can hit glitched builds).
** Hitting the cluster repeatedly is more rewarding.

Weapon:
- Probably use the RTNP's rocket launcher model: https://liandri.beyondunreal.com/File:RocketLauncher-rtnp.jpg
- Base ammo changed from 100 to 150.
- Buildable for 1500 RU.
- Projectile expires after 2.5 seconds (limited range).



TL;DR:
- Distinctive look (?)
- More Player vs Player oriented.
- Less RU farming oriented, but slightly stronger vs Mines.
- 80 damage/s to builds.
- 8 damage/s to all enemies over 7.5 seconds, can be dealt to buildings as a separate instance, repair PLS. (Ignores invincible Suppliers)
- Timed damage spreads to other nearby players/builds.
- Buildable.
- Maximum trolling: pin a whole team in the supplier if you set someone going to Supplier on fire.

SAM
02-09-2016, 08:10 PM
This.

SAM
02-09-2016, 08:12 PM
More.

][X][~FLuKE~][X][
02-09-2016, 10:06 PM
Sounds good for the most part. I do see a few in there that may end up being counter productive.

"Touching a teammate while burning will set him on fire (NewTimer = Timer-1, short fires only)."

This one will end up with raging players thanks to trolls on fire touching deliberately

"buildable"

That is just asking for rage, 5+ jetpackers all with flame.

and sorry, but "Maximum trolling: pin a whole team in the supplier if you set someone going to Supplier on fire. " is a very stupid move. Think clarion, you can constantly pin them in sup while the other team nuke and players wont rage about it?

some of it seems ok, but this might backfire and blow up in your face. I can't say anything for sure until I have experienced it but such a big change is going to be met with hostility. Like I have always said, changes should be done little by little, not ram a complete change down players throats and force them to use it. You tend to do that Higor, forcing people to play it how you like it because you think it is the best way instead of listening to the players, I have experienced it first hand remember.

Time will tell I guess, I could be totally wrong and it will be a hit.

Higor
02-09-2016, 11:02 PM
Anyone with common sense would avoid touching teammates on a supplier if they were set on fire... I hope.
I'm still working with the numbers here, so far the primary hit is more overpowered than it looks like.
Maybe 12-15 damage instead of 20, and probably have builds receive 70 damage/s instead of 80, it's a huge amount of damage when you add multiple builds on fire to the equation.

The main idea is to make it a more versatile and fun-to use weapon without being broken, and having it buildable will make it's use more widespread, although I predict it'll mostly be built for tactical purposes.
I totally see it being used by nuker backups, one goes in and nukes, the other sets on fire everything else, chaos ensured.

I know that the old, OP flame was a buildable in RC1. For that reason I take into account the criticism that came before me when trying to bring it back in a better way.
Jetpacker/Translocator + Flame abuse is literally uncounterable in ClarionUltimate already.
The damage/s reduction, multiple hits to lit a cluster on fire and the fact that one flamer steals the other flamer's RU should balance to the better. (3100 RU wasted if someone else is taking your flame ru lol, worse if you get shot down in the process)

DontWorryBeHappy
02-10-2016, 10:36 AM
The proposed changes sound promising.

I'd go with this kind of flamethrower model, with tanks attached to the back.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/USm2flamethrower.jpg/1280px-USm2flamethrower.jpg

This would of course conflict with the model of the current jetpack but maybe it would be better to avoid overpowered builds like jetpack+flame+2nukes+shieldbelt+trans+amp+whatnot altogether... maybe by adding some inventory system, applying weight to "big" items.

I mean, look at the picture, the mayhem this weapon alone allegedly could create.

][X][~FLuKE~][X][
02-10-2016, 11:36 AM
Anyone with common sense would avoid touching teammates on a supplier if they were set on fire... I hope.

LMFAO...... Its public Higor.

Common sense is never used. That's why I have the thought it wont be met well by many players who do have brain cells, not because of it being crap. It would be really bad in the hands of the many, many nublets on the server. This is why I also said you have to get out of your way of thinking and imagine these things in the hands of the worst players on the server, not how you would use it or how you think it should be used.

I would love to be wrong, but I have seen almost every change you have made or something new you added get slated and raged at, then players get very resentful because they are forced to use it or simply don't play.

work it and see it without allowing your personal views on how it should be played or used getting involved in its development.

It should always be baby steps so it isn't such a smack in the face for the players. This is going to be such a dramatic change that it will almost certainly be met with hostility.
I seriously would not make it buildable, especially with your logic everyone can build one to even it out, that is going to end up being flame spam which will destroy game play resulting in rage.

I enjoy all of your changes and respect them highly, but I despise anyone forcing me to do things their way, which sadly is what you tend to do. Most of the changes you have made I probably am not even aware of them. Like when RU is suddenly frozen with red numbers counting down, I have no clue why that happens.

Don't take my comments as insulting, I am just looking at it with a neutral mind to cover all grades of siege players as a whole.


http://www.unrealkillers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2880&d=1455066729

That is a nice model, what is the poly count?

Cella_V2
02-10-2016, 03:15 PM
On a few maps you have certain people that literally only make ape cannon or blue gun with their RU, thats already a pain in the ass. I am not gonna complain about something that hasnt seen public time yet, but yeah if even these noob weapons can cause annoyance, this one could be worse.

Then again, im fond of complaining

Higor
02-10-2016, 03:53 PM
When you put it that way, it's a nasty side effect of buildable weapons, ppl don't want to lose them and stay def.
Would adding +5 armor to repair function make ground offensive play stronger (in a balanced way) in your opinion?

- - - Updated - - -

Another way to force offensive movements, is to lower RU requirements of weapons but also reduce the initial ammo given, encouraging kamikaze movements.
Let's see:

Pulse Rifle:
- Spawns with 199 ammo on Mid.
- Buildable for 350 RU with 75 ammo.

Ape Cannon:
- Increase cost to 800 (from 750) because it's refillable.

FlameThrower (above concept):
- Spawns in mid with 150 ammo.
- Buildable for 800 RU with 65 ammo.

|uK|kenneth
02-10-2016, 03:56 PM
think its better to leave it as it was. but lets see...
suprise me.

Higor
02-10-2016, 04:06 PM
So far I've only changed the projectile mechanics.
https://github.com/CacoFFF/SiegeIV-UT99/commit/ec1d1aae05046611ce2921de65ac68019a95a831
I think i'll keep it like this and see how this partial change is received.


+//
+// Higor changelog:
+// - Got rid of useless variables.
+// - Disconnected players cannot incinerate builds
+// - Spawns less sprites on low framerates
+// - Set bNetTemporary=True
+// - Can only incinerate one target
+// - TakeDamage applied on all Pawns
+// - Victim lookup rules changed
+// ** from: Radius=(64+Victim.CollisionRadius)
+// ** to: Touching OR (Radius=72+Victim.CollisionRadius AND visible)
+// - Base damage changed to 20 (from 40)
+// - Another 20 damage instance is dealt to the Actor that touches the projectile
+// ** Can now hit triggers, open doors, destroy decorations...

Cella_V2
02-10-2016, 04:27 PM
As I said, its hard to discuss about something that hasnt been tested yet on public.

The thing im more interested in is repairing the core.

You cant tell me that when you smack the shit out of a beautiful gem you can fully restore it to its old state. Something has to change when it comes to that subject aswell.

Just my few dollar bills

|uK|fleecey
02-10-2016, 04:45 PM
When you put it that way, it's a nasty side effect of buildable weapons, ppl don't want to lose them and stay def.
Would adding +5 armor to repair function make ground offensive play stronger (in a balanced way) in your opinion?

- - - Updated - - -

Another way to force offensive movements, is to lower RU requirements of weapons but also reduce the initial ammo given, encouraging kamikaze movements.
Let's see:

Pulse Rifle:
- Spawns with 199 ammo on Mid.
- Buildable for 350 RU with 75 ammo.

Ape Cannon:
- Increase cost to 800 (from 750) because it's refillable.

FlameThrower (above concept):
- Spawns in mid with 150 ammo.
- Buildable for 800 RU with 65 ammo.


Please no buildable flame, just let it spawn in mid

audiosonic
02-10-2016, 05:18 PM
Pulse Rifle:
- Spawns with 199 ammo on Mid.
- Buildable for 350 RU with 75 ammo.

Nice try Higor.

][X][~FLuKE~][X][
02-11-2016, 11:01 AM
When you put it that way, it's a nasty side effect of buildable weapons, ppl don't want to lose them and stay def.
Would adding +5 armor to repair function make ground offensive play stronger (in a balanced way) in your opinion?

- - - Updated - - -

Another way to force offensive movements, is to lower RU requirements of weapons but also reduce the initial ammo given, encouraging kamikaze movements.
Let's see:

Pulse Rifle:
- Spawns with 199 ammo on Mid.
- Buildable for 350 RU with 75 ammo.

Ape Cannon:
- Increase cost to 800 (from 750) because it's refillable.

FlameThrower (above concept):
- Spawns in mid with 150 ammo.
- Buildable for 800 RU with 65 ammo.


Adding armour is not really a solution, that's like introducing something disruptive and using something to try to fix it afterwards to compensate, but the original disruption will still remain. I would like to see it something like this

Ape Cannon
- Increase cost to 1200 because it is refillable.
This amount will put off those who spam it and allow those who should know by now that the alt projectile decimates super containers, which makes it a desirable build.

Pulse Rifle
- Mid as you put, 199RU ammo.
- Buildable for 1000RU with 199 ammo, again serving to put off spam builds but still giving a generous ammo count. (you are a severe pulse whore Higor, so I am not surprised you want the price to be lower)

Flame
- Spawn mid with 50 ammo, this stems the spam flaming and teaches players they don't need to hold down fire and spam it in every direction. This would nudge players to be accurate instead of spam and hope until ammo runs out
- buildable... no no no no no and just NO, that would be a jet packers wet dream.


One thing not really to do with flame, is the super sniper crossed with alt pulse. Minigun being ZP is a damn nightmare with spammers as well as it pins a player so they cant move. again, this stops people learning to use it properly.


This is like others, just an opinion and can't fully judge without seeing it in action. Lowering ammo and raising costs on spam weapons though is something I strongly believe will increase team play and less spam. This also means some stalemate games will get less as those who normally spam wont be able to any more, meaning they have to get involved with the team.

Scourge
02-16-2016, 12:30 AM
While we're on the subject, when people die with it let's get a "Scourge was carrying a FLAMETHROWER and a TRANSLOCATOR and a SUPER JETPACK and THREE WARHEADS!!!"