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View Full Version : "Remove" before "Upgrade"



Feralidragon
06-04-2011, 04:50 AM
Well, there's something I noticed and I don't really know if this happenned to more players:
- When an EMP is released or a flame thrower used, sometimes things can get quite laggy in a base when there are too many buildings.

What happens is the team will always attempt to repair everything as fast as possible, but in such laggy situations is quite frequent (at least for me) select "Remove" instead of "Repair" by accident, and then starting to remove containers without realizing it until the lag goes down or if you look to your max RU capacity, and this can greatly affect the team when the intention was never remove anything.

This is just a sugestion anyway, but in case a new siege release is planned, do you agree to have "Remove" before "Upgrade"? I mean, you would still start with "Upgrade" by default, but to get to "Remove" you have to cicle through all things first, being "Remove" the last, specially since it's only used to remove leeches and obsolete suppliers (or obsolete teles).

What do you people think?

audiosonic
06-04-2011, 06:28 AM
I got repair binded on a key for this, x=setmode 1 0 | Buildit

How come everybody can remove your forcefield and super container now?

|uK|B|aZe//.
06-04-2011, 11:54 AM
i think remove should be placed last after suits but thats just me


I got repair binded on a key for this, x=setmode 1 0 | Buildit

How come everybody can remove your forcefield and super container now?

that is to stop noobs building it in stupid places or where its not needed or where the forcefield is useless where it is and needs to be placed elsewhere

remember the forcefield is limited to 2 per team super cont is 2 per team and poison guardian 1 per team

this is to help make it so people put it where its really needed and not all over the base etc

Feralidragon
06-04-2011, 12:39 PM
I got repair binded on a key for this, x=setmode 1 0 | Buildit
Thanks for the tip. Although it doesn't really suit me. As an UT developer/modder I have already lots of keys assigned to open specific test maps, summon specific weapons, etc, without having to type everything everytime I have to test something.


i think remove should be placed last after suits but thats just me
Yeah, that's basically the idea. It's the less used main function from the builder, and can really have a negative impact after EMP or flames by simple accidents...

|uK|Rays
06-04-2011, 12:44 PM
lol i accidentally removed a super supplier in a pug because of that, i got too excited and hit remove on my own ss. 2pro4u!

SAM
06-04-2011, 01:32 PM
Well...the complicated but familiar way around it would be to disable removal of anything effected by EMP. This would keep the contructor familiar...otherwise it can be moved.

Poll?

Feralidragon
06-04-2011, 01:39 PM
Well...the complicated but familiar way around it would be to disable removal of anything effected by EMP. This would keep the contructor familiar...otherwise it can be moved.

Poll?
Well, the familiarity was a bit lost with the release of Siege Ultimate anyway. However, that's also a good solution.

A poll would be the best thing to do right now indeed :)

SAM
06-04-2011, 01:51 PM
Well....you are OP Ferali so amend your post :p

Feralidragon
06-04-2011, 02:00 PM
Done :D

It seems that my question is too big, so the text was truncated, and can't edit it... No problem, people will understand the question I think. :)

|uK|B|aZe//.
06-04-2011, 03:19 PM
the more effective thing would be to go with scars idea and also mine where remove is last

<|Pius|>
06-04-2011, 10:11 PM
Don't move shit around again! then Me, Severed, and like 50 other people will have to change our binds. I think SAM's idea of making things which are affected by EMP AND FLAME non-removable is a good idea. if you want to remove something, you'll simply have to repair it first.

Moko
06-05-2011, 11:38 AM
The middle one is brilliant, that's my answer and explanation right there.
And I agree with Pius, that will also prove if they are removing on purpose or not.

Moskva
06-05-2011, 01:08 PM
well if they are removing on purpose it will be easy to catch that guys that screw games by removing conts
and then ban them? :P

Moko
06-05-2011, 04:50 PM
On Friday a guy kept removing conts, I think Grim has it on demo...But we kept getting EMPed so I dunno.
But he seemed to be eyeing my conts as they were building. lol

Moskva
06-05-2011, 10:44 PM
lol i was there too and i saw the guy removing conts even when we were not EMP'd so he did it on purpose or is a serious ret :P

mostro
06-06-2011, 12:04 PM
removing spree?...

i like the second option... really great

Moko
06-06-2011, 11:05 PM
lol i was there too and i saw the guy removing conts even when we were not EMP'd so he did it on purpose or is a serious ret :P

AH right you were, lol.

K so, where's Grim's demo?
I wanna see it. xD

Ye mOstrO, RrRrRrRrReeemovingggg Spree-ree-ee-e!!!

Feralidragon
06-09-2011, 06:28 AM
So, is 2) the winner? Will it be included then in a new Siege release?

I voted 1), but I actually agree with 2) more now as well.

Sakura
06-09-2011, 08:37 AM
On Niven, our whole base was a maze of containers. Let me draw it...

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii86/hollist2/teamfail.png

I think the hallway is too big, because we did not have that kind of space! But anyways this guy thought it was a great idea to block passages off with containers. It took us a lot longer to get out of the base and it was a shitload of leech for the other team. Someone built a container right in front of the door, it was at 22 health. And they sat there repairing it lol. Then you got this platform, I don't know how that is suppose to help? When you exited the maze, you had to go impact hammer, or tele, into the sup, go to the right, and then keep at the right with things in your way. I removed two containers since red was owning us and our tele was dead. Then the super container at the door was dead. Surprise surprise. Then the exact same guy made the two super containers together and it blocked the path, without a working tele. It was a game of get out of jail red base. I don't want to remove the shitload of containers the guy built, because 1. I could get kicked, and 2. He'd be pissed and 3. Blue was already in the base. So I don't mind if we still have "remove" setting on the second. But I guess the only guaranteed decent game is going to be at a siege pug without noobs.

|uK|Anthrax
06-09-2011, 09:05 AM
In my opinion, should leave as is.

And sakura, nice skills in design lol

mostro
06-09-2011, 10:20 AM
i'm with sak again

|uK|B|aZe//.
06-09-2011, 10:39 AM
well theres some other changes/fixes coming to siege but first silverwing needs to be shown how to load siege in practise mode by scar once hes shown that he can start editing siege to how it should be

noggieB
07-13-2011, 01:11 AM
If you change the order of the menus, I'm gonna go around accidentally doing crazy stuff to our base.

But I do appreciate the problem. Lag has caused me to skip past Repair and accidentally Remove a couple of containers. Only happened twice though; now I'm just careful to check.

scar's idea is nice.

But let's not forget the real cause: lag! It would be nice to fix this lagging issue in the new versions of Siege. What is causing it? Even if there is no EMP or fire happening, the mod lags like mad. I don't think the new meshes are so pretty that they can justify that!! I for one would prefer old meshes and crappier EMP graphics if it means I can play properly again. :P

|uK|B|aZe//.
07-13-2011, 10:07 AM
If you change the order of the menus, I'm gonna go around accidentally doing crazy stuff to our base.

But I do appreciate the problem. Lag has caused me to skip past Repair and accidentally Remove a couple of containers. Only happened twice though; now I'm just careful to check.

scar's idea is nice.

But let's not forget the real cause: lag! It would be nice to fix this lagging issue in the new versions of Siege. What is causing it? Even if there is no EMP or fire happening, the mod lags like mad. I don't think the new meshes are so pretty that they can justify that!! I for one would prefer old meshes and crappier EMP graphics if it means I can play properly again. :P

this.

<|Pius|>
07-13-2011, 10:14 AM
Siege is laggy. Period. There's no way around it because some of the builds are checking every second, others every 5. Super protectors lag like hell because they're essentially actors shooting at you.
Imagine an open room (like bathrooms) with 15 loque's camping from different locations, and all opening fire on you at once. You're gonna get CPU latency/video latency (unless you have a really good pc, all the build textures are the same regardless of texture quality) as well as actual net lag (T1 connection anyone?)
There's really no way around it, and they just have to find more ways to compensate for it.
IMO

noggieB
07-14-2011, 03:20 AM
Siege is laggy. Period. There's no way around it because some of the builds are checking every second, others every 5. Super protectors lag like hell because they're essentially actors shooting at you.
...
IMO

You are right, SuperPros caused lag since they were introduced. But that's something I've just come to accept.

The real issue I want to stress is the lag in the newest Siege version. Quite a few people complain about this. When you spawn, and walk across your base, you sometimes get a huge lagspike and end up spinning around and facing the wall! This is even more annoying/dangerous when you are attacking, and loading up a sixpack as you enter enemy base. Often instead of walking around the corner and spanking some enemy buildings you end up making a glorious suicide! xD

I don't even know ... Who wrote the latest version? I just hope he's taking this bug into account for future releases!

<|Pius|>
07-14-2011, 09:03 AM
You are right, SuperPros caused lag since they were introduced. But that's something I've just come to accept.

The real issue I want to stress is the lag in the newest Siege version. Quite a few people complain about this. When you spawn, and walk across your base, you sometimes get a huge lagspike and end up spinning around and facing the wall! This is even more annoying/dangerous when you are attacking, and loading up a sixpack as you enter enemy base. Often instead of walking around the corner and spanking some enemy buildings you end up making a glorious suicide! xD

I don't even know ... Who wrote the latest version? I just hope he's taking this bug into account for future releases!

SK/Koala, perma-banned. Doubt it.

|uK|B|aZe//.
07-14-2011, 12:49 PM
he said he would still develop it

SAM
07-14-2011, 01:04 PM
he said he would still develop it

Not willing to let that happen.

Feralidragon
07-14-2011, 04:36 PM
The problem aren't textures: http://www.unrealkillers.com/showthread.php/648-SiegeUltimate?p=14274#post14274

Moko
07-14-2011, 04:43 PM
Often instead of walking around the corner and spanking some enemy buildings you end up making a glorious suicide! xD
I'm so glad to know I'm not alone in this. lol

If I leave my base mainly in bathrooms, maps like Clarion I'm fin in..I get a LOT of LAG!
Good if you hate bunny hoppers, we can't hop cause of the lag, but that aside, if I go to other base I can't even move really cause of lag, and by the time the lag is gone I'm dead and respawned.

I'm curious, does ripper spam lag the server at all?

audiosonic
07-14-2011, 05:34 PM
I'm curious, does ripper spam lag the server at all?
In fact, it decreases lag.

Moko
07-14-2011, 06:13 PM
In fact, it decreases lag.
You're not serious.
How does MORE movement cause LESS lag?

audiosonic
07-14-2011, 07:11 PM
How does more movement cause less fat?

Feralidragon
07-15-2011, 05:55 AM
If you knew how replication works it would be easy to understand what causes more or less lag lol.

Any projectile is simulated, meaning once spawned it sends a notification to all relevant clients, from there:
- If is a bNetTemporary projectile (like Ripper blades, regular rockets, flak shreads, pulse projectiles, etc), there's only a second notification from the server: when it hits something or hits a wall/floor/ceiling, which is when it either changes speed and direction or when it's destroyed and gives damage.

- If is a NON-bNetTemporary projectile (like seeking rockets, shock projectile, guided nuke, pulsegun beam, biorifle projectiles, etc), the server is contantly sending notifications to the relevant clients relative that projectile, to correct their position or status since:
- seeking rockets, guided nukes, pulsegun beam are always changing speeds and directions over time, they do not follow a linear movement, either by speed or gravity like bNetTemporary projectiles;
- shock projectile and biorifle projectiles can be destroyed at any moment, and that notification would not be sent if they were bNetTemporary: combo and splash damage respectivelly.

Therefore, the less laggy projectiles are (from the less laggy to the most laggy):
1. Pulsegun projectiles, ripper (any projectile), flakcannon (any projectile), rocket launcher (only grenade and non-seeking rockets, redeemer regular non-guided nuke;
2. Biorifle (any projectile), shock projectile, pulsegun beam, rocket launcher seeking rockets;
3. Redeemer guided nuke (it's the laggiest projectile).

Between instant-hit and projectile based weapons, well, instant-hit weapons are more affected by ping, but they cause the less lag generally, as long their firerate is low, once it's high, they become pretty much the same as bNetTemporary=True projectiles, although a trace call (the shot) is a relativelly expensive function in the server depending on the number of actors and max length of the trace.

SAM
07-15-2011, 12:49 PM
Sounds like you know what you are talking about. I'll send over the source :p lol

Moko
07-15-2011, 01:17 PM
How does more movement cause less fat?
We're not talking about the human body we're talking about a game server, a lil different I think. :P

Feralidragon
07-17-2011, 12:35 PM
Sounds like you know what you are talking about. I'll send over the source :p lol
Well, that's why I can make things work online relativelly easilly right now fortunatelly :)

And trust my words, if it wasn't the fact that I am fully busy with other mods and without my own machine to agravate the situation, I would indeed take a look at it and fix and optimize where necessary.

Btw, isn't WildCard working on it anymore?

<|Pius|>
07-17-2011, 01:08 PM
yeh, where's WC been?
Also, if you move remove and repair, it will mess up the most basic binds that are interchangable between the sieges. I think you'll have more noobs forget to change their binds and end up removing and ruining many games over a short period of time, thus causing people to uninstall UT and quit forever out of Rage....Tha ultimate R-R-R-RageQuit!

SAM
07-17-2011, 01:10 PM
Well, that's why I can make things work online relativelly easilly right now fortunatelly :)

And trust my words, if it wasn't the fact that I am fully busy with other mods and without my own machine to agravate the situation, I would indeed take a look at it and fix and optimize where necessary.

Btw, isn't WildCard working on it anymore?

WC is afk has been :(

|uK|B|aZe//.
07-17-2011, 03:31 PM
lol pius we wont be doing that

and xxx please please please please work on it if you ever have the time after finishing your own work :D:confused:

ChanClan
07-21-2011, 05:02 AM
What if the Upgrade, Repair, and REMOVE were on KEYS and NOT in the builder (sgConstructor)?

<|Pius|>
07-21-2011, 05:10 AM
You may be onto something there, but what heppens when a player already has said key bound to a getweapon function?

ChanClan
07-21-2011, 06:49 PM
Well, as you man know,... that's the reason the Keybind MOD won't save (mine anyway, no one else has this problem). But If it was build into the "CORE" then their would be no confict. Tracking down that conflict has proven to be ...difficult...It may even simply be in my INI itself..and have nothing to do with the mod. Personally, the MOD need to be updated or integraded into the game...why they never did it in the first place... seems foolish.

|uK|Shiva
07-24-2011, 04:26 AM
We need someone to make a pug bot on irc that can setup the pug server. Kind of remove the need of an admin.

Anyone fancy some coding?

noggieB
07-25-2011, 04:09 PM
I want to change my vote to "Yes" but I can't. Remove is pretty rarely used, so it would be fine to put it at the far end of the list imo.

ChanClan
07-25-2011, 08:47 PM
I'd check it out, but I'm not admin....or a member ( should fix that ). I'd need to know the process. why can't we use the the assault version? incompatible? anyone emailed the author of that one? I'll dig him up and see if I can land him.

ChanClan
07-26-2011, 12:56 AM
I personally think REMOVE should be REMOVED.... or at least made so that only the OWNER can remove HIS builds and NO ONE can switch teams. It's really frustrating on the public server..... Lame Xss FXXkers just come in and RUIN the match on purpose.

Having the remove like it is, makes people get "arrogant" and they think they "KNOW" what builds are right and what are wrong, so they take it upon themselves to "FIX" them. Making each player completely

responsible ( –adjective 1. answerable or accountable, as for something within one's power, control)

would change the game.......again.

<|Pius|>
07-26-2011, 02:19 AM
but that won't work either, the only way around that is to have 24/7 moderator to say whats right and wrong. people build dumb ass leeches and ruin games too.

ChanClan
07-28-2011, 02:58 PM
Indeed. So, that's outa da question. Hmmmm... what to do .what to do.


....punt.

Feralidragon
07-28-2011, 05:34 PM
I don't want to lit up your hope, but it's possible to make some changes in siege to avoid lameness and leeches and still keep a good game intact:
- When building containers, check if there are more than "X" already within a limit radius, and not let build one if so;
- When if there are just 2 or 3 players in the game, make them win less RU when shooting multiple buildings at once;
- Limit the number of nukes when there are only 5 or 6 players;
- etc, etc...

With a good code clean and these small addons/changes, no one would be able to bitch about lameness, leeches or whatever, and games would become excellent...
Only if I had any time at all... damn... each time I talk about this sort of thing it really makes me want to do a whole new version alltogether...

Where's WildCard when he's needed? He would be the man to make these changes which everyone would benefit. :)

<|Pius|>
07-29-2011, 12:16 AM
WC was on here today and he posted some SS's. I think he's hinting at the new siege version as the RU crsystals were VERY colorful (and pretty) and also had different coronas and possibly fractal animation. I also noticed some Core health crystals on the right of the screen that I've never seen before (also looking really pretty) and I'm hoping that this is a preview of things to come in the VERY near future.

Koala
07-29-2011, 07:08 AM
I don't want to lit up your hope, but it's possible to make some changes in siege to avoid lameness and leeches and still keep a good game intact:
- When building containers, check if there are more than "X" already within a limit radius, and not let build one if so;
- When if there are just 2 or 3 players in the game, make them win less RU when shooting multiple buildings at once;
- Limit the number of nukes when there are only 5 or 6 players;
- etc, etc...

These changes could be made in under an hour...

Moko
07-29-2011, 04:34 PM
SK, ClanChan wanted to talk to you about sth having to so with scripting or sth, you can see in a user message on my profile.

ChanClan
07-29-2011, 09:43 PM
Thanks MoKo, but he appears to be AFE....away from earth...

=-)