Five ways to improve this dumb server

[noggieB]

<nogginBasher> 1) reduce kickidler time, or disable auto-respawn SO THAT KICKIDLERS WORKS

50% of games start with 5 noobs idling and completely screwing the game for their team. I offer you two options to solve this. PLEASE for the love of God pick one.

Getting kicked for being idle is way better than a kickvote, because you can rejoin after. And ofc kickvote never works because the threshold is just too high. Players prefer to rape static enemies and build their awesome base!

<nogginBasher> 2) disable team switching

Every few games some noob decides he's gonna switch to the winning team. It's distracting and dumb. Even if we spam !t, the weaker team he switched from is down a player until he eventually gets pissed and leaves.

Why is there even an option to switch teams? I never see the "strong" players do it when the teams are bad, but they should. (If you are on the stronger team and have more players, just rejoin the server and you'll be put on the weaker team. Naturally most of you won't do this, but players with balls might.)

<nogginBasher> 3) upload the fixed version of Burning

MAL is so pro, he nukes through the window! I can give you 2 alternative copies in IRC.

While you're at it, where are Schmydro, Duku and DiamondSword?

<nogginBasher> 4) reduce the strength of the overpowered zp sniper rifle, or just remove that shit

Flat maps. Zeroping. Sniper arena is just boring.

Blaze thinks sniper is skill but don't believe him lol. Skill is predicting where your opponent will be, and putting a projectile there. Not waiting for his head to go under your crosshair, then clicking.

You're encouraging a generation of UT players who only know one weapon, and who think they own at UT lol.

<nogginBasher> 5) ignore all my advice, and wait for someone to configure a better siege server

Finally just wanna say, my avatar rocks, even more than SAM's. In the corner it says "that had to hurt".

[SAM]

Suggestions always welcome. No one likes to make them no matter how many times I ask for any sort of feedback.

I tried disabling teams, there was a teamswitch "fix" placed on the server...however, atb was not able to counter it, remember?

Kick idler time will be reduced. Also, forcerespawn will be taken off ;)

[SAM]

Kick idler time will be reduced. Also, forcerespawn will be taken off ;)

Done.

[noggieB]

Oh wow great job! I thought you were ignoring me in IRC until |uK|Shiva admitted he wasn't you. xD

But also you fail! No-auto-respawn can be used for spying! Well that might be quite nice, let's see what people think. ^^ Reduced timeout would be fine otherwise.

n1 dood

P.S. This thread has the most awesome sigs I have seen on the whole site.

[<|Pius|>]

damn noggie, I thought you were a nice guy....

SAM thanks for fixing those, been meaning to drop a bug in your ear about a few of the above suggestions (i think 1, 2 and 3) also would it be possible to delay the game start time to somewhere around a full minute? Ace lags people pretty hard at the start of the maps and that's a very crucial part of any siege game.

The zp sniper does not need to be nerfed, do you not recall how much it costs to upgrade the supplier? And with the ultimate weapon the supplier gives out being the sniper, i think it's fair that everyone has the power to kill people fast.
It takes a lot of skill to kill people with the sniper as well, have you ever heard of too accurate? You have to have your crosshair at the exact location the player is, and with hitscan it still ensures a degree of difficulty. You know how hard that is I'm sure.

I like how you started this thread after you left the pug.:mad:



P.S. SAM I think you're running an excellent siege server.
Let the haters hate.

[Moskva]

well if u disable teamswitching the noobs will go as spec and then wait till a spot is open in the winning team and with no possibility to get switched to his original team UNLESS in the game if u start in red for example u cant be on blue in the match (exception is if u get switched by the server to even teams)
and i have a question if u remove force respawn does the kickidlers still work? also reducing kickidler time is very nice but maybe it will confuse being idle with using feign death for example u r on enemy base using feign death and u get kicked lol

[noggieB]

Nice discussions guys. Pius don't get mad. I just gave this thread a controversial title to get some views. ^^ I don't think the server can be that bad given how popular it is. ;) Also I never left the pug. My .join was too late.

I would also support a slower game start. An extra 15 seconds wouldn't kill us. We could chat some map strategies!

Edit: In another thread I posted how this could actually help team balance. One problem with the fast start of a new map is that a lot of players quit right after the game starts, messing with the lovely balance! Give them a little longer to make up their minds, and the players who aren't gonna play can leave, without messing up the teams. +15 seconds SAM, what's to lose?!

I agree zeroping is vital to bring together players from all over the world. It's just a shame it leads to sniper arena. ;p I would like to use it less myself, but I have a duty to my team to frag more than get fragged! ;)

My revised FixWeaponDamage mutator to reduce sniper damage unfortunately doesn't affect damage to armour which is a real shame. But we tried it in LMS and it actually seemed ok. One alternative might be to increase strength of other weapons, rather than decrease sniper, but I think that's the wrong approach.

[|uK|Rays]

The sniper thing is a valid point, but it can be mostly fixed with the right maps. I find it funny that most of the sniper-oriented players call any map that isn't large and flat a "spam" map. It's also pretty funny watching them try to snipe in these more complex maps due to their sensitivity being at 0.000000001337. It does take skill to be good with a sniper, but this fact is usually offset by the fact that siege is 125 speed, zeroping, and almost always on completely flat maps. It is fun every now and then, but it's really become synonymous with the siege mod. My favorite siege map is Butchered, the beauty of that map is that sniper is not always the best weapon choice and that it doesn't usually last 2 hours. I doubt anything will change with the kind of maps we play, everyone has this idea that siege should be a certain way when it comes to gun fights by now. :rolleyes:

[|uK|B|aZe//.]

<nogginBasher> 4) reduce the strength of the overpowered zp sniper rifle, or just remove that shit

Flat maps. Zeroping. Sniper arena is just boring.

Blaze thinks sniper is skill but don't believe him lol. Skill is predicting where your opponent will be, and putting a projectile there. Not waiting for his head to go under your crosshair, then clicking.

You're encouraging a generation of UT players who only know one weapon, and who think they own at UT lol.


if how you aim is wait for a player to go to your crosshair it explains why your so bad at UT and yes i do think playing a proper 5v5 sniper arena match takes more skill then using ripper like you do.

WHATANOOBS

[|uK|B|aZe//.]

well if u disable teamswitching the noobs will go as spec and then wait till a spot is open in the winning team and with no possibility to get switched to his original team UNLESS in the game if u start in red for example u cant be on blue in the match (exception is if u get switched by the server to even teams)

i kick/ban people for this i suggest the other admins do the same for fags who go spec because they want to be on the other team then come back in a few minutes later to the team they wanted to be on



and i have a question if u remove force respawn does the kickidlers still work? also reducing kickidler time is very nice but maybe it will confuse being idle with using feign death for example u r on enemy base using feign death and u get kicked lol

this is a valid point if anything take kickidlers off for this very reason and make a mod similar to kickvotes but instead its voting on to send the idled player to spec

[<|Pius|>]

Nice discussions guys. Pius don't get mad. I just gave this thread a controversial title to get some views. ^^ I don't think the server can be that bad given how popular it is. ;) Also I never left the pug. My .join was too late.

I would also support a slower game start. An extra 15 seconds wouldn't kill us. We could chat some map strategies!

Edit: In another thread I posted how this could actually help team balance. One problem with the fast start of a new map is that a lot of players quit right after the game starts, messing with the lovely balance! Give them a little longer to make up their minds, and the players who aren't gonna play can leave, without messing up the teams. +15 seconds SAM, what's to lose?!

I agree zeroping is vital to bring together players from all over the world. It's just a shame it leads to sniper arena. ;p I would like to use it less myself, but I have a duty to my team to frag more than get fragged! ;)

My revised FixWeaponDamage mutator to reduce sniper damage unfortunately doesn't affect damage to armour which is a real shame. But we tried it in LMS and it actually seemed ok. One alternative might be to increase strength of other weapons, rather than decrease sniper, but I think that's the wrong approach.

Rays and I were talking and I think we brainstormed a way to fix the above issues and many more. We were aiming for weapon equality, but moreso, siege equality. Expect a post with a wall of text in the very new future. Expect it.
Sorry about going off on you earlier. In the near future if you have a suggestion, it's easier to get what you want with sugar.

[|uK|B|aZe//.]

i seriously think certain normal weapons ctf maps would be really good for siege it might actually make people use a weapon other then the sniper sometimes

[SAM]

So suggest them then.

[kron]

The less time it takes to kickidlers I think needs to be extended to a bit longer.
In a match of bathrooms last night, SW was doing some admin work and got kicked for being "idle"
I got kicked for being "idle" when I went to get a bottle of water. Ended up not being able to use my 4000+ ru because when I came back it didn't recover.

Plus, there needs to be a SP limit, because it really lags the server when "noobs" make 10+ SP's.

[SAM]

<nogginBasher> 1) reduce kickidler time, or disable auto-respawn SO THAT KICKIDLERS WORKS

50% of games start with 5 noobs idling and completely screwing the game for their team. I offer you two options to solve this. PLEASE for the love of God pick one.

Getting kicked for being idle is way better than a kickvote, because you can rejoin after. And ofc kickvote never works because the threshold is just too high. Players prefer to rape static enemies and build their awesome base!


The less time it takes to kickidlers I think needs to be extended to a bit longer.
In a match of bathrooms last night, SW was doing some admin work and got kicked for being "idle"
I got kicked for being "idle" when I went to get a bottle of water. Ended up not being able to use my 4000+ ru because when I came back it didn't recover..

Why do I bother.

Kickidlers will kick you if the server is full. The countdown which beeps you out of the server is 40 seconds. If you will be idle then you need to spec. It was 90 seconds before, I have just about halved it because obviously it wasn't working.

[|uK|B|aZe//.]

well here goes

CTF-Disposable-UGL-LE102
CTF-FirePot
CTF-Glacier][-CE105
CTF-Ronsico][
CTF-Relentless-IG
CTF-Ratchet
CTF-Vengeance-CE103
CTF-Nucleus
CTF-Noxion16
CTF-DiamondSword_CE
CTF-Cybrosis][
CTF-Curse][-v2
CTF-Burning
CTF-BollWerK105
CTF-Beholder
CTF-Almost-LE
CTF-[C]BeerWars ( the version where spawn points ARENT in enemy base which is the current on the server needs to be replaced with this version)
CTF-'uK-Aero
CTF-Stalwart'V2
CTF-Revision
CTF-[C]CrippledWar][
CTF-(DH)Everest1
CTF-Anfractuous
CTF-Asteroid
CTF-Snipefortress
CTF-Azcanize-LE102
CTF-Lucius

maps that might need slight editing to move the core to a more suitable place
CTF-Glacier][-CE105
CTF-High
CTF-Ratchet
CTF-Vengeance-CE103
CTF-DiamondSword_CE
CTF-Burning (original)
CTF-Beholder
CTF-Almost-LE
CTF-Revision
CTF-[C]CrippledWar][
CTF-Anfractuous
CTF-Asteroid
CTF-Snipefortress
CTF-Azcanize-LE102

ive got loads more in mind deathhunter has said he is up to editing the maps ive highlighted out for editing

[kron]

It's not like I left for 5 minutes man. I left for 1 minute to get something to drink and when I came back my spot was taken and all my RU gone. That's unfair imo.

[<|Pius|>]

SW...LOL-should have removed idle timer being an admin and having this happen so many times before. WATHANOOBS.
B|aZe-FTW. fuckin awesome map list man, i can't wait to play some of those, namely Firepot...also could you add CTF-firenze to the list? don't think it would need much editing, just move the core back into the doorway behind the flag.
SAM-Why DO you bother?
kr0n-lol, do !s if you have to get up for any reason, I do. At least then you still have a chance of recovering your ru provided you can get back in.
ALSO, SAM CTF-DDayv3 (i think. It's the one with 2 bridges and is bigger, with a mirror instead of the sniper hole in the (larger) flagroom and the flag off to the left side of the base) would make a GREAT siege map with no editing.

[terminator]

AUTO RESPAWN should be on cuz of spying! Don't remove it

About zeroping... when i 1st joined the server i hated cuz of sniper abuse (as it is on all zeroping games) but still i would suck so badly with this high ping and without zeroping (in a way that i [and other europeans] would get owned by americans).
Only weapon which is overpowered is minigun!!!!!!!

[<|Pius|>]

Only weapon which is overpowered is minigun!!!!!!!
Viki_Viktorius....remember?
'Nuff said.

[|uK|chiseller]

Ron > viki

[|uK|Tomahawk]

add CTF-uKVallyofSeige fun map and you know it haha and you know im not gonna stop bugging till its on:)

[noggieB]

Rays and I were talking and I think we brainstormed a way to fix the above issues and many more. We were aiming for weapon equality, but moreso, siege equality. Expect a post with a wall of text in the very new future. Expect it.
Sorry about going off on you earlier. In the near future if you have a suggestion, it's easier to get what you want with sugar.

NP dude, that sounds interesting, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

I did some reading and I think I *could* get my mutator to process damage before armour, if I introduce a new armour inventory type for each player (at highest priority). Stage 2 here:

http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:Taking_Damage#How_do_damage_types_work.3F

However reducing damage of sniper isn't a great solution, if we want to keep the 1-shot-1-kill headshot thing. The problem is just that ZeroPing makes a headshot much easier to achieve. I originally tried to use a server-side Trace to make them harder to achieve (more like non-zp servers), but this didn't work well; naturally it favoured low pingers. I think the real solution has to be a new version of ZeroPingPlus that assumes a smaller collision cylinder, so making a HS in a ZP server is as difficult as making a HS in a non-zp server, but gives the normal amount of damage. Unfortunately to do this, someone needs to get hold of the ZPP103 source!

And for the record, the same issue of course applies to enforcer and shock-primary, perhaps even shock primaries targetted at popping balls.

Rofl @ Viki_Victorious ... but I played with her yesterday, seems she is reformed, doesn't use it nearly so much as she used to :) Edit: nah that was a one off - she's using it again!

About KickIdlers, damn this is a bitch of a problem.

The issue I see is that at the start of a game, if someone idles then the opponents tend to kill this static player, and with auto-respawn this means KickIdlers doesn't notice he is idle. So he keeps coming back and acts as human leech for the enemy. This can really screw the start of a game. That's the problem that I wanted to address. =/

Either reducing KickIdlers timeout to something very low, or disabling AutoRespawn can fix this, but we've heard above why neither of these are desirable. (Unless we accept that reaching enemy base and doing some dead-man spying is a feature!)

The ideal solution would be a programmatic one: a KickIdlers that detects idle players not by whether their position/orientation changes, but by some other mechanism (e.g. have they clicked their mouse or pressed any movement keys).

It's quite common for players to idle at game start I guess because they want to keep playing, but after the long game they just had they went to get a drink or something. I wish they would just go spec! :P

[|uK|Grimreaper]

where the fck is viki_victorious anyways never see her :(

[|uK|B|aZe//.]

i find it easier to pop headshots in nonzp :<

[SAM]

nogg, why don't you make something to counter it instead of writing an essay on the forum. You could convert that essay into a mod that is shorter than your post and will work!

[|uK|Rays]

Um I do have our conversation log with everything we discussed Pius, but it's a lot and I am kind of busy. Don't expect me to go through all of it right away, I have some college stuff to take care of and that takes priority right now. Yell at me on IRC if you want the log of our conversation, you might be able to write up a better list of stuff than I could since you did that siege tutorial, just a thought.

[terminator]

Viki is idiot... i don't like her at all. Just defending/camping in front of her base , usually with minigun

[Moko]

<nogginBasher> 4) reduce the strength of the overpowered zp sniper rifle, or just remove that shit

Flat maps. Zeroping. Sniper arena is just boring.

Blaze thinks sniper is skill but don't believe him lol. Skill is predicting where your opponent will be, and putting a projectile there. Not waiting for his head to go under your crosshair, then clicking.

You're encouraging a generation of UT players who only know one weapon, and who think they own at UT lol.

Am I reading wrong or are you saying Sniper takes no skill?

[|uK|B|aZe//.]

Am I reading wrong or are you saying Sniper takes no skill?

your reading correctly

[Moko]

your reading correctly
In that case I respectfully, and sternly disagree.

Sniper is a little more than wait and click.
It takes the ability to read the person, know the timing and have the aim.
It's not a simple task to aim and shoot when the person is on a w00t bouncer.

A.I.M..That right there takes skill.
I'm still a nub and I've been playing with some of you guys for almost 2 years, my aim is lousy. lol
It takes practice, skill, and time.
Even more so if you don't use a scope, like I'm training to do.
If you have the ability to kick tail with sniper than you are very skilled..If you don't wish to be called skilled...Well... :P

As for just using one weapon, I'm learning many weapons personally, but even if there is a whole bunch of players that just use sniper..O.K. and?
They can play in sniper arena, there is sniper CTF, Sniper TDM and DM...Sniper is very prominent in UT from what I see, clans and servers.

I love the sniper, my fav gun aside from Minigun and atm Rox.
Don't dis my sweet gun. <3

Btw, some people can spin around and fire w/o even thinking and kill a person w/o a bot..That's skill.
Sniper takes plenty of skill, so do the other guns, but Sniper isn't just a lil toy any1 will pwn at.

K I'm happy now, and I just spent about 15 minutes typing a long thing no1 cares about, but I'm happy. XD



P.S: Blaze it's spelled You're not your in this context.
What grammar, you should be ashamed. :P

[|uK|Chronox]

It is funny how a "dumb" server hits #1 place lots of times.

[terminator]

In the beggining i thought that sniper is no skill as well but just luck.
It's not that actually since u can easy recognise snipe pro and snipe noob.
I'm not trying it though until i buy G9x :cool:

[Sakura]

I suggest you change a time limit to a cap limit on the combogib server. That way the stacked team can get 5 caps and the next map it will actually be a fair one.

[<|Pius|>]

set the caplimit to 10 if you do that. 5 isn't enough for combo

[|uK|MiniWick]

sniper dont take much skill , The shock combo takes more skill then the sniper does really ,
for the snipper , all's you have to do is keep it at head level , hold the trigger down , and strife left to right in small movements ..its a 1 hit done , not like the shock were it's a couple of shots and it boost's you away too for your advantage ^^

[|uK|B|aZe//.]

sniper dont take much skill , The shock combo takes more skill then the sniper does really ,
for the snipper , all's you have to do is keep it at head level , hold the trigger down , and strife left to right in small movements ..its a 1 hit done , not like the shock were it's a couple of shots and it boost's you away too for your advantage ^^

your aiming like a noob would your basically spamming shots until you hit someone sniperisnt about moving the crosshair with your movement try aiming for yourself for once and see the difference

[<|Pius|>]

regweapons = move to aim
ZPweapons = move and aim
gg

[|uK|Grimreaper]

what blaze said..

[kron]

Bio rifle is pro.

[|uK|B|aZe//.]

well maps will be coming real soon just waiting for the last 4 or so maps to be edited for siege play and they will all be put on

[<|Pius|>]

Nerf the flame in the meantime PLEASE

[noggieB]

It does take skill to use sniper. You have to aim at a small moving target. (Thanks to training on uK server I can now occasionally achieve this on FFA! But it's still boring. :P )

I think it takes just as much aiming skill to send a long-range flak ball to the right spot, and additionally it requires the skill of predicting where your enemy will be at that time.

It also gives your enemy the chance to notice and avoid it, or perhaps more amusingly, dodge right into it! I think the projectile weapons are a lot more fun, sometimes creating unexpected boosts and some laughter.

When Blaze kills me with a flak cannon on FFA I am 100x happier than when I receive yet-another headshot on siege.

Ray, yeah I did recently write a mutator to reduce sniper damage. It's called FixWeaponBalance and it's on my site. (It also reduces minigun.) But I've realised that's not the solution, because...

Unlike most DM and CTF games, Siege is played in non-hardcore mode, where ALL the weapons have reduced ("noob-friendly") damage. But since the sniper still does 100 damage for a headshot, a 0:100 player will notice no difference from that weapon! (Irregardless of the zp.) So really I can't reduce sniper, or we lose the headshot.

One solution I have considered is to increase the damage of all the weapons back to the level of hardcore mode. But this is rather roundabout.

I think the proper solution is to fix the siege jetpack, so it will work in hardcore mode, and then we can play Siege the same as CTF and DM. (And we will also be able to dodge onto the boxes like normal.)

Then we might still consider reducing sniper damage, to compensate for zp. :P

[noggieB]

I think the no-auto-respawn has really helped the beginning of a game. An idle teammate is only a 1-time leech for the enemies, instead of continually respawning and offering himself as RU! Unfortunately we have to accept "spying" as a side-affect of this change. So be careful building secret stuff near enemy corpses!!

But I would still like to promote Puis's idea of increasing the time before the game starts. To make it easy for Sam, I've looked up the setting:

[Botpack.DeathMatchPlus]
NetWait=15

(This is the setting I use on nzp. Go for 20 if you feel brave! And bear in mind that siege games last bloody ages!)

Why do we need this?

Well when a new map starts, the teams get rebalanced very quickly, and the game starts. But then often players will decide they don't wanna play, and leave or spec. If any of those players who leave are strong players, then this has a real bad affect on the teambalance. It makes the initial balancing and all those stats we stored rather useless!

I hope that with a slightly slower game start, people will make the decision to leave *before* the game starts, and thus team balancing will actually work, and the idlers might even have made it back to their PCs!

[noggieB]

Oh I just wanted to make one more clarification: SAM is actually a pretty good admin.

Although he can't code for toffee, he did put a lot of work into the server and was always fast to respond to issues, as it evolved through many different stages over the last years. He's also very good at hassling coders and admins on unrealadmin.org until he gets the results he needs! And I even saw him helping others with the stuff he learned, gg.

Only bad thing I would say was use of the dodgy IpServer.u that sometimes makes the server lie about the number of players there! Not the first guy to use this mod, but hopefully the last.

About his little brother Blaze, probably best I say nothing. ;)

[|uK|B|aZe//.]

oh no incoming hate train

AFK.