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Hi UT community!! Long time no talk! Not trying to bitch and complain but you guys tell me if this guy "westerns" on the IG server is somehow hacking/botting. seemed before the video he was VERy snappy tried recording quicker but my slow ass dinosour computer wouldnt spool up the turbo. I have a .dem for yall. This guy would have almost 300 frags whilst others that are top shots have low to mid 100's. Just watch the vid and enjoy! :p
I've got a few demo's of him as well, and I mentioned him as a possible aimbot in another thread. There is no concensus, or any decision of any kind on him yet as no one was able to play my demo's, but in my mind he was much more obvious than the other person I reported at the same time who is a known and convicted hacker.
Top players on woot get at least low to mid 200s.Quote:
Originally Posted by yank.
example
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/...ps838f47e1.png
That's shots lol
yeah i got it from the topic he posted.
More people being accused of botting ...Feels like 2009 again
So you are saying there are no botters?Quote:
Originally Posted by |uK|MiniWick
Last week I was playing and thought I found a botter, so I went spec and sure enough I had found a botter, and I mentioned it in-game but was told I'm a noob and L2P and he's just good, but turns out this botter ]y.S[N.e.w.s. was actually JYB, a known and multiple time convicted cheater.
Are you also aware that there isn't a single hack protection that hasn't been hacked, and that doesn't get hacked within 24 hours of updates (and when was the last update on these things)? Are you also aware that not only are the IP's hacked, but so are the mac hashes and HWID's? Are you also aware that the cheat community laughs at people that think there are no cheaters or that think their cheat protection is secure?
Now I have no doubts that there are some truly incredible players out there. Players that make my play look like ...well I can't think of a negative picture to describe it right now...and I'm no noob. Overall I am a very good player (though if you judge it by UK servers I'd be no more than maybe a little above average).
I know there are legit players, I also know there are a LOT of cheaters out there. Back in 2006, just before I quite UT (for about 6-7 years, only been back for about 8 months), my clan was ranked 2nd on PG, though at the time I didn't know my clan mate and co-captain POWER had an aimbot. About 3 weeks before I quit UT, POWER shared his aimbot with my clan. He said he was given this "private" aimbot from a friend in the "elite" community and that it was 1 of many such hacks that are passed around in the "elite" community (I'm talking the "Prounreal" community here), he also gave me an MIRC channel and password to access the cheaters MIRC channel, which I did and discovered that that MIRC channel was the largest I had ever seen with easily 200 people logged in at any 1 time. I discovered that many of the top players were in fact hacks using aimbots/radars/timers/etc... . I tested out the aimbot I was given for a couple weeks to see what it could do (you know I really don't know why my buddy gave me that aimbot and the MIRC channel and password as I was one of the most vocal anti-cheat players out there), and after 2 weeks or so of testing and getting involved in the "cheat community" I realized that there was no protection against cheaters. That no matter what the anti-cheat community did there was no way they could stop the cheats. So I caught 1 last high profile cheater (anyone who was plaing HHH back then will remember, as it made a HUGE stink when I caught and outed Omorphi, and of cousre even with this one, as with all of them there were many people calling me a "noob" and "L2P" and the whole 9 yards about me calling her a cheater...at least until the proof became public), then I quit UT, in part because of what I saw in the "cheat community" and in part because of the attitudes and responses I got from people I reported the cheats to.
You should also bear in mind that a few months back some of the top anti-cheat developers were saying that according to their stats of caught and convicted cheaters, that from 1 in every 4 to 1 in every 3 players uses some sort of hack.
So please don't try and tell me there are no cheaters, or that I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to cheaters. Sure I can be wrong at times...both with those I believe are cheating and with those I believe are legit, but this blanket attitude of "stop accusing people" only helps the "cheat community"
Besides which, I myself have only accused 3 people, and 1 has been confirmed as a cheater already and the other 2 (seeing as these people alias all the time I am assuming it's only 2) the evidence hasn't been viewed by anyone yet.
Jyb has been caught once in the past that I know of I have never seen any other logs. The anti cheat that we have now on the servers is outdated for sure and who the hell knows how many players are cheating right now a few cheaters have been banned in the Global unreal community in the past 1-2ish years and they were caught watching there demos but for sure there is a private cheat being passed around and its undetectable on ACE servers we really need someone dedicated on making an anticheat and updating it every 4-6 months or so....
I'm wondering if using heuristics to catch botters would work.
The heuristics would simply work like AutoTeamBalancer, using !heuristics (only available to admins) in order to see their 'accumulated strangeness'.
The accumulated strangeness would be a single floating point number that will be calculated over the latest 10 minutes.
The strangeness will consists on strange events and these events will be saved for 10 minutes, if an extra command !events ID is issued, a list of all 'strange events' will be printed on the mod's console.
Strange events would be collected on both client and server ends for each player for information purposes.
With extensive research event collection can be tweaked to prevent collecting too much on normal players.
With lots of research and testing, it should be possible to establish good parameters for automatic !admin alarms by the analyzer.
The analyzer combined with a spec mod that allows simulation of aim (XC_Spec_r3 would do the job) catching a botter would be fairly easy.
What I would like to see is someone with real talent take over the UTP anti-cheat...that had real promise...and if IRC it had something like what you describe Higor.
@Famine
[demo=http://www.unrealkillers.com/attachm...1&d=1359441423]
Gaga was using a cheat, only a few people on combo noticed anything fishy about him, and when i was playing against him on the insta server hours before that demo i didn't think anything strange was going on, because he didn't have that many kills more than everyone else.
Some utstats of games he played, some just look normal.
Unreal Tournament Stats - Powered by UTStats54.87%acc
Unreal Tournament Stats - Powered by UTStats41.14%acc
Unreal Tournament Stats - Powered by UTStats40.50%acc
Unreal Tournament Stats - Powered by UTStats39.74%acc
Unreal Tournament Stats - Powered by UTStats38.64%acc
Unreal Tournament Stats - Powered by UTStats37.54%acc
Unreal Tournament Stats - Powered by UTStats37.14%acc
Unreal Tournament Stats - Powered by UTStats33.41%acc
videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPHQzPV5PHs
links to games in the video, see how low his accuracy is even with the cheat on.
Unreal Tournament Stats - Powered by UTStats
Unreal Tournament Stats - Powered by UTStats
Topics
http://www.unrealkillers.com/f44/gag...all-hack-3425/
http://www.unrealkillers.com/f20/a_l...sting-ip-3428/
I am planning on remaking a video in slow motion, and high quality.
Sounds like a really interesting idea higor.
Could have algorithms, that alert admins if someone is getting unusually high accuracy, eff ect as well.
That's a good point Sniper, one I've known but not sure I've mentioned it...just because you don't have that great of a score or accuracy doesn't mean they are not cheating (also the reverse is true, just because you have a really high score or a really high accuracy doesn't mean they are cheating).
Yes I saw that video a few days back, I think you, or someone else posted a link to it in another thread (that response from ar47yrr4p ...well that's me). I remember back in the day when the combo hacks were spotted because no matter how you moved your crosshair would follow/track the ball...but I see now they fixed it so that it doesn't have to follow/track the ball (though they probably had this way back when as well and I just didn't notice)
Here is the new videos, one is 5fps and another in 15fps(not the same clips). GAGA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUvjtvQV4ns
15fps video
UT99 combo cheat 15fps - YouTube
Sorry a bit lost here. Are the above youtube videos demo of the reported person botting or examples?
@SAM sorry it's that gaga guy, i posted in the wrong topic, too many tabs open at once.
Didn't know newer kinds of aimbot lock-on the shock ball ??
Just wanted to say....UTP wasn't all that good...I tried using it and there were so many false positives it's just not worth it. It creates admin hell lol
I do have a later version of ACE however, problem is it does not work on our servers....
Well, UTP wasn't complete. They were still working on it...besides I never trust false positives...I mean sure there really is such a thing as false positives but I've seen WAY too many people claim it's simply a false positive to trust it.
I am going to assume here (because I do trust this admin team) that the false positives you had were genuinely confirmed as being false and not simply by taking the word of someone!
As for the later version of ACE, I have read in the unrealadmin forums that it's already hacked, and here I assume you are talking about ACE v0.09 which actually hasn't been released?
"It's not that easily to bypass ACE, there are a few ways to do so but its not like theres more then 5+ people actually doing so. (Except for maybe some dickheads who bought a cheat)"Quote:
Originally Posted by Famine
Said by someone. But this don't have to move on to keep this thread doing so generally, don't have to worry about it too much, admins here do their job perfectly fine. ;)
And someone replied to that with this quote...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamberly
"I've got two replies for this. The first is that there have been very few 'newly detected cheats' in quite some time. You'd think that with the availability of code for anyone to try to make their own that you'd see a stream of new stuff now and again. In fact, the opposite is true. Almost nothing new is surfacing, or to put it another way, is being caught. Logic would dictate that either everyone left the building or they now share the bypass method.
Secondly, and much worse, when we developed the UTP service we had server-side code that monitored shot timing, placement, and movement before and during each shot taken by the player. Over time it was easy to develop a statistical model of "a really good shot" versus "a really hard shot". Consistently I saw certain people making really difficult shots over and over and over. I'm talking about 2-4 percentile shots and not 50/50. These people spun a high arc (greater than 70 degrees) and took headshots as they swept over the target with no lag in timing. Yeah you can do it but not 10 times a game.
Every indication is that cheating is rampant in online play."
And I'm not worried about the admins, they do what they can with the tools they have. I was just pointing out how even unreleased versions of anti-cheat software is already hacked.
I trust the UK admins (about as much as I trust anyone in UT to be legit and honest...I mean that in a good way, not sarcastic), but they are not perfect, and for UT's entire history there as been cheaters, LOTS of cheaters, many of whom have NEVER been caught. Why should it be any different now? When some of the top anti-cheat developers are saying between 1 in every 4 and 1 in every 3 current players is cheating, why would I not worry? I don't mind getting owned by a genuinely talented player, it's not knowing (and not being able to know for certain unless I am standing behind them when they play) for certain if they are legit or a hack that bothers me.
If it makes any difference to anybody. Here are our GAP panel status
Current database status: 440207 entries - 1799 banned cheaters
The response you quoted Famine was from GoPo. I'm not bad mouthing him but he always has a very negative outlook in his posts. Things aren't as bad as he claims or portrays. The fact is, ACE is not easy to bypass. I do have v09c which is an unreleased version, only released to myself and FBT for testing (we tested ACE from the first day of BETA) through to the current version and beyond. ATM v09c works...very well, is not bypassed (AFAIK) however, it does still have issues, major ones which is why it's not on our servers nor been released. Coupled with that anth is busy with RL so there's not been much movement. I don't doubt however one day that there will be :D
I've heard that there is probably about 5 + cheaters that bypassed that v09c. But I don't know they are... just spreading word.
It would be nice if that were true, and maybe things have changed enough for that to be true, but I've seen the seedy underbelly of the cheating community and the vast majority of the cheaters have NEVER been caught. I saw this 7 years ago (OK more like 8 years ago now) when I was handed a semi-private bot that was being passed around the "leet" community and given the password to the cheaters IRC channel. There really were hundreds of cheaters logged into that IRC channel at any one time and the vast majority of them had never been caught.Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM
And I have also heard that the code for v09c is in the hands of the hackers and likely already bypassed. And it only takes 1 person to hack it then pass the bypass around for everyone to get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM
I appreciate the work you and other admins do, and I very much appreciate the work of Anthrax and other anti-cheat developers, but you are fighting against the tide. Unless someone can come up with an un-hackable protection then it will always be hacked.
You know I really do hate sounding this negative, I can only try to assure you that even while I am typing this stuff I don't feel negative...I've come to accept the situation for what it is. Had Epic released the game code to the anti-cheat developers like I had heard years ago was in air as a possibility to do..then from what I hear we could have gotten a real un-hackable anti-cheat program, but Epic decided to leave the game to the cheaters instead.
http://www.unrealkillers.com/f68/ai-test-3161/
The server in question was uK pug and was running ACE, the client bot built a base on his own lol.
I'm not actively developing this but it's a nice proof that not only aimbots, but entire AI modules can be made to move a client with all the anticheats running.
I still think you're making too much drama out of this, let's just trust the eye of the admin team.