:Thonk:

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11-23-2018
CoD|JIgSaW

:Thonk:

I'm writing this just to give my own thoughts on everything that is happening,the cause of it and perhaps to offer a few solutions too.
Firstly I'll make my argument as to why I think a single person is pretty much to blame for all of this and why I think that the admins haven't acted very well either.

Let's see where all this madness with the bans started from.I believe that it started at the moment when Kenneth banned me,teddi and banny.What happened:I was in the same team with banny.Loko couldn't show up for some reason,he only said "emergency" in discord and didn't show up for the pug.The enemy team got berserk as a substitute and everything seemed fine.However banny decided that he can't play if berserk subs loko because it makes it too "stacked" .I clearly remember having 9 people waiting clicked in while banny was in spec like a basic bitch choosing not to play.Idk about you but when I win against a stacked team the satisfaction that I get is even bigger,clearly not for banny who doesn't play unless he gets cella,dangerboy or blaze in his team.I kept asking kenneth to ban banny because of doing such a stupid move(That pug died because of him in the end).After complaining for some time he decided to block banny from pugs for 1 or 2 days but he couldn't stop there and decided to ban me and tedi aswell for "aliasing".The aliasing rule hadn't been enforced for months until that moment.You banned us just because we had a valid complaint against your buttbuddy :bjerk.Whatever, we took the ban and from that point the aliasing rule was enforced every game.

Fast forward a few weeks and somehow banny gets mod position on instagib servers and siegepugs aswell.How does that even happen ? Not to mention a few weeks before that he also chose not to play a face pug because the enemy team consisted of me,cella and dangerboy while his team had teddy and a few others.For that game we actually found a sub but it just shows you his character.Unless teams are stacked in his favour he'd rather not play and kill the fun for the rest 9 players.
https://i.imgur.com/rAoysyp.png.
I don't know why you offered someone like this a moderator position but in the end I decided not to bash him too much and see if he will be a decent mod.

1st retarded ban from banny: Teddy and him are playing a bathrooms pug, teddy is using the nick [B][M]:ted1:.At this point the aliasing rule is being enforced.Banny decides to ban teddy after pug for using the name from above.Tell me lord banny how is that an unrecognisable name ? Don't you recognise ted1 being teddy ? How does that even affect the game at all ? Do you even know what a fkin alias is ? It means a completely different name. I think to this date that is one of the dumbest bans i've seen in any gaming community.

2nd retarded ban from banny(i'm sure there were more but these are the ones that come to mind in this moment) + fleece : Me,banny,fleece,kenneth and moskva were playing julius 5v5.At that point I didn't know what I was disliking more.Julius winning the mapvote or the fact that I had to play with fleece,banny and kenneth in the same team.I decided to go nomic but I still tried my best to win the game hence I had bannys and fleeces frags combined.You tried to make it out that I was somehow laming the whole game when I clearly wasn't.
https://i.imgur.com/y2nhwwk.png
Pug ends and I get muted on discord.I was actually trying to figure out why I had been banned from joining the pug but both of these great mods were too smug to answer with a valid reason until people started spamming the channel.Fleeces reason in the end was the fact that I didn't use my mic during the game and didn't give any "comms".Great reason.Let me ask you, how many other players do the same thing,I think I know at least 10 ? How many other players did you ban for the same thing ? I'll tell you,0. Do you really think I was the reason you lost the game ? You picked a stupid map that was very hard to defend on and when you lost you got salty and didn't have anyone to blame but me,right ? Ban was so great that you or someone else removed it after a few hours :bjerk:bjerk

3d retarded ban from banny:Banny is picked as captain for red team while Skarn is captain on blue.Skarn asks banny to reset because he didn't want to captain + captains were unfair since banny was getting the firstpick aswell.What does banny decide to do ? Ban skarn for refusing to pick.Sure it says in the rules the following:"When you pug up, you accept that you may be made to be a captain and pick a team, if it is required to balance a team." But whenever players asked for a reset, moderators did it without problems.Oh wait I have the best example :bjerk
https://i.imgur.com/ztr2xS4.png.
(Few weeks before-Banny being reasonable and reseting the pug when skarn asked him too).Wow,you couldn't do this again right ? You couldn't reset and wait 30 seconds for other captains ? You and fleece had to make up some stupid reason to ban him.Great moderating dude,I don't see how it affects the game in any way if someone doesn't want to captain and how that constitutes a valid reason for ban but then again, you have 0 critical skills so what do I expect.It's funny that you were acting smug again and actually told me to look for times when you reseted pugs when players asked you to.I think the example above says enough but if you want I can give you 10 more screenshots of you doing the exact same thing. J1J1

I'd also like to point out that my dislike for fleece came when she banned me for 2 days for being late 1 minute(I'm not exagerrating) for the pug even if that never happened before.Luckily Blaze talked some sense into her that time and removed the ban but it shows you how great of a moderator she is aswell.

As far as all the bans made by Sam are concerned, I'll just say this. All of those had as reason people trolling,spamming or doing stupid shit like voting maps in server so they become red.But you never looked past that.You never understood that all those actions came as reactions to either fleece or banny handing out bans like complete morons.If Skarn or Skaarj would just do stupid shit like that without any reason I'd ban them too :bjerk .But everytime they did that it had a reason.Just how you say it dude,if the US bombs some country or starts a war witn no reason won't you expect some terrorist attacks ? The fact that you were muting instead of simply banning on server for a few matches or blocking from siegebot didn't help either....

As for banny or anyone else,I don't think you wanted to kill your own community or meant for any of this to happen.If you want to stop it just close the pug server and it's done.But some people just don't act good with too much power in their hands.I didn't have any problem with you until you became a mod and started being a complete dumbfuck.Just step down from that position,everyone liked you better as a player,I'm sure of that.

Lastly I don't know why you kicked me from your discord server,I actually don't support the idea of a "new" community because of several reasons:

1.Same game different channel
2.At this moment the FWB server is complete unplayable garbage
3.Dividing the community like this just means less players joining pugs or less players in UT overall
4.Regardless of how bad I think some situations were handled,UK has been providing servers,teamspeak,discord and other resources for years.Turning your back and just making your own channel and little community is just backstabbing and really low.If they continue like this maybe it's deserved but as for now,it's completely useless
5.MY suggestion for Sam and Blaze is: Reconsider your staff members and check the bans they put in place from time to time and don't just believe them blindly,know that in the end the players constitute the community and not only you and the moderators,be more understanding:obey:,put the discord invite back on forum and the most important thing is give me mod :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

I think certain players including myself need to apologise for overreacting from time to time,acting cunty or trolling too much but it was always a reaction to something even dumber.So sorri

Also don't delete this pls and lets have a convo,I spent too much time writing this shit.And banny I actually want to see you disproving all of my points,btw saying I'm racist isn't a valid argument J1J1.Looking back at everything you did, you deserved much more :wallbash:wallbash:wallbash

I'll try to erase everything that happened from my head and hopefully we can all have a fresh start (pls delete other siege channel its lame,teddy as admin is :bj::wallbash:wallbash:wallbash:wallbash)
11-23-2018
|uK|kenneth

wow jigsaw. im actually blown away by your post. everything is being discussed as we speak. and honestly this might be rightt in time to save IST.
i hope and believe we all will come out stronger than ever before.
thanks for the post.:)
11-23-2018
Banny

All I want to say is, dragging up the past won't help at all because let's be honest you cannot verify it properly. You want my side of the story, of course it's going to feel biased for the other person. You will come back and say how my story is flawed. The PAST is not going to resolve this matter. I am glad you ready to have a new start. I never wanted things this way, even you know that. I always wanted to play pugs despite all the shit and insults I got for enforcing certain rules that seemed too harsh. Yes it's the internet and friendly banter will always be around but I feel we are mature enough to see where to draw the line.

That being said, I'm always ready to start things fresh and keep this thing alive as much as we can even though I never "hated" anybody in the first place because it's such a strong word. If I didn't care about this community, I wouldn't have spent my extra time writing the bot for discord when seabass left with his. I care about this community as much as you do. Problems were at "both" sides but let's just hope for a better future.

Protip* If you are courteous and give some respect to the other person when you are having a convo then the other person will be courteous too. Starting a convo like "you fucking retarded dumfuck why did you ban me" is adding unnecessary fuel to the fire. If theres a problem it can be talked like mature persons not some 13 yr old brat who just found out a website full of swears.

I hope despite all the unfortunate events, we can still move on. dragging up the past is only going to cause more problems. From now, if there still are issues, I'm surely it's going to be handled more maturely and hopefully every voice will be heard.

Peace!
11-23-2018
Cella_V2

Quote:

Originally Posted by |uK|kenneth

wow jigsaw. im actually blown away by your post. everything is being discussed as we speak. and honestly this might be rightt in time to save IST.
i hope and believe we all will come out stronger than ever before.
thanks for the post.

That blown away to still ban me and others from public, wow!
11-23-2018
|uK|kenneth

i banned you. SAM banned everyone else.
11-23-2018
SAM

@Cella_V2

I told him to ban you. And it was also my decision to remove the rest of you from our servers too.

@CoD|JIgSaW

On Wednesday, I spent about two hours trying to reason and explain to you that, constantly bringing up the past, will never help to resolve any future problems. I can't verify them nor can I take any retrospective actions.

I explained to you, multiple times, what my role always was in this community. I took a back seat for two years to follow some other hobbies, but I made you and everybody else aware, that, there is always that escalation route to me and I always investigate fair. To me, the rules apply for everyone.

I've had long conversations with the Mod teams about how they should be modding. In the Skarn situation, where he didn't want to captain, the first thing that should have happened is, SW should have been banned.

The second thing that should have happened is, Skarn should have been removed.

The problem is, every single one of you, keep getting involved in individual ban issues and ganging up on mods, on behalf of you friends. This makes fair enforcing and moderation of rules impossible. We don't have an issue with joking and trolling. But trolling situations where the behaviour is inflammatory, is extremely difficult for us to manage. Because it quickly spirals out of control.

Quite frankly, we don't want drama and we are very happy to remove it, to the point where we will make our discord private. We have had enough.

You all wanted to build your own community without us, we facilitated that for you. We genuinely hope you will be successful and that you don't have to deal with the problems you made us face.

Lastly, if the community does die, then it will have died because we are sick of managing childish behaviour. Ultimately though, it will die because you guys decided to split the player base, though, we have no qualms with that, as I have ushered you all out of the door.

The way I see it at the moment is - we are withdrawing everything that we ever facilitated, out of our own pocket, our time and our resources. It is a shame that it took this for you to come to your sense but it was quite clear that none of you were willing to work with me, to help improve matters.

Good luck.
11-23-2018
Cella_V2

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAM

Lastly, if the community does die, then it will have died because we are sick of managing childish behaviour. Ultimately though, it will die because you guys decided to split the player base, though, we have no qualms with that, as I have ushered you all out of the door.

This is where YOU are to blame though.
Cya!
11-23-2018
SAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cella_V2

This is where YOU are to blame though.
Cya!

Yes. You guys wanted to make a community, without us, away from us. And I helped you realise that dream.

That's my fault, is it :cow:
11-23-2018
Krikor

Even when it came to this point, you still think your decision is the correct one SAM, when its not. All the words ive put in the moderator section ignored and thrown away in a single sentence. Jigsaw of course has part fault on this, but you're just looking at one side of the coin, and still dont look to the other side. I give props to jigsaw to actually making such a post to try to solve everything too, but again its all bashed
11-23-2018
SAM

@Krikor I didn't ignore what you said in the mod section. The reason why I spent two hours of my life typing to Jigsaw yesterday, on the channel, was because I listened.

We can't improve things by constantly talking about and bringing up the past. I know rules were not enforced correctly, fairly or universally. And I have spoken about this to all the moderators.

Which decision of mine are we talking about here?
11-23-2018
Krikor

Then why wait until things went downhill to have a conversation that should have happened time ago? Why suddenly try to talk to them when they get games in other channels? I mean, they could have too before, but how can they if they are always getting banned and muted all the time?

Well just to name one, but it was discussed already, having a ban directly affect IST.

I dont know if I want to keep discussing this atm tho, ive explained my point in the last 2 weeks, im just a neutral here and im trying to help both sides but one side doesnt seem to care at all anymore
11-23-2018
snakeware

yet you guys fail to see the Big part of the problem, you guys dont see your flaws, even with the whole community pointing at them, you dont want to admit/fix your bad decisions. How can you still think everyone is wrong but you SAM.. its just dissapointing.

To be honest I always admired blaze for keeping up with the communty regardless of how he treated some people
but you cant deny the fact that the community went downhill when banny got moderador, I didnt have anything against him, or have anything personal against him now, I had fun playing with you in the past and I have talked with you in the past and it was always cool and good,i respect what you do for the community, but man, open your eyes..you suck as an admin, you suck so much that even rank 1 dangerboy leaded a new community, I mean, fucking dangerboy being one of the few guys in the community that nobody hates or has something against, thats gotta tell you something..accept your flaws and at least try to not be as biased with every rule you choose to 'enforce', all the stupid bans always have some personal background behind them and thats a fact you cant deny.

As by myself I been trying to forget the past and I have nothing against banny and uK, I still try to get along but the decisions taken the past few days from SAM and Banny are just way too stupid.

One last thing, why do you keep saying looking at the PAST wont fix anything, like where else can we look?, we have the past to proof what decisions are bad and what should be change, dont try to hide your flaws on that nonsense phrase that you been repeating all these days "past wont solve anything as there is no way to prove it"

I Hope things gets fixed since I want to rape moskva on IST this weekend, ggs
11-23-2018
RTG`

We have devoted ourselves and contributed to this community for so many years, yet this is the treatment we are getting back. I don't want to be treated like someone special because of that, I want to be treated like a human, simple as that, If you could actually understand and value that SAM. Ruining the IST league for my whole team and trying to talk with SAM was the biggest wound and disrespect I have ever received and people would not understand it unless they put themselves in my shoes.

But Oh No! Wait! What Is That Quote??
http://i68.tinypic.com/xp0etk.png
It seems that SAM is concerned about me trying to find new subs for the IST match that he sabotaged, which both teams didn't play in the end? He must've been a really caring guy.
SAM had already banned his main lineup - skarn and skaarj from IST couple days ago, why not continue on salting BerserK's wound and start humoring him about it.

Jigsaw you are misunderstanding the point of our discord server, we are not a community, we are friends. Because the people in it are not random strangers looking to download UT or new guys that like to learn siege, we don't have a site or 10 public servers. We are simply people who interacted with each other for years and years.
And the hateful way SAM reacted to our community was so toxic that it was out of this universe, we are not aiming to be your competitors, we never will, we simply want to escape the dictatorship that is put out on us, people simply cant take it anymore and try to run away from it. It's been going for so long, how do you expect it to change in a snap Jigsaw.

SAM I want you to stop for a second and realize that you are building and building distrust within your community, what kind of outcome do you expect of it? Of course no one wanted this to happen, I didn't want it to happen, we have to bother with more shit ourselves. You have to realize that most people can't accept when someone wants to rape them in the ass raw and keep quiet in acceptance, nobody was fine with it and that new discord server became the outcome of those actions, despite the fact of people being banned everywhere. They are on the internet and have the freedom of whatever the fuck they want to do.

Sometimes when you are in a bad relationship, you break up and find a new one, that's how life is. Or better yet - try to make up for it.. why didn't you do that SAM? Why did you had to treat us like puppets? The thing what frustrates me the most is how incredibly aggressive SAM is, and his misunderstanding of everyone (and me). But now that there is a knife put to your throat you actually start calming down and listening in despair. I disapprove of that, because it is not the way to be a better person, and unfortunately that means that things wont change, because you will be putting on a fake mask. Maybe if you were a better person who values Respect could've done different decisions and all the things would've not happened at all. But it is what it is. You have to take a lesson out of it, because it's for your own good self.

So back to everyone, you guys are awful and I would really like all of you to change, it sounds too good to be true honestly, but regardless, the wound is already cut open and it wont be healing by itself any time soon.

Lastly SAM,
Appreciation and Respect - start to think about those words every day and maybe they will bring you closer to people, but most importantly - they would Appreciate and Respect you back.
I can't tell you these words in person because when you reached out to me to talk - you've blocked me, you've banned me on discord and servers, you are deleting and ignoring every word I am trying to say to you. That is Ignorance and Disrespect. If you are being aggressive to me, of course I will be aggressive back, simple as it is.

We were very passionate and active in participating in this league. That moment when our IST lineup got banned and couldn't proceed forward, we became so desperate. And with tears trying to talk to SAM and hoping he would "forgive" us to play 1 match and getting declined, was such a depressing and fucked up moment that I don't wish anyone ever experiencing that. Not to mention that our previous Week1 match was a 100-0 rape against teddy. So I want to apologize to @|uK|fleecey for some things I said out of aggression, as I was trying to ignore my tears with that. I don't even know how our team agreed to continue our IST games, our team was pretty much broken at this point, everyone was ready to leave planet earth itself. But a week passed and we swallowed the harsh reality and decided to keep on playing for fun, there are other teams that are dependant on us, because there are scheduled matches already. We haven't even practiced a single map after that, I don't even know who will be available on Sundays, we don't even know what our next map pick is, haha. We are playing it as if its another pug and swallowing the hard truth we experienced.

This became too sad, I will finish this off with some old movies I did for this community to cheer you up, maybe it can make someone laugh - evil or good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNK8q577x5w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbKD7zBcrQM
11-24-2018
|uK|chiseller

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTG`

Lastly SAM,
Appreciation and Respect - start to think about those words every day and maybe they will bring you closer to people, but most importantly - they would Appreciate and Respect you back.
I can't tell you these words in person because when you reached out to me to talk - you've blocked me, you've banned me on discord and servers, you are deleting and ignoring every word I am trying to say to you. That is Ignorance and Disrespect. If you are being aggressive to me, of course I will be aggressive back, simple as it is.

That's rich. This community has rarely ever showed any appreciation for the work that was put in. As an admin, the majority of time you get personally insulted for actions that the player brought upon himself. This has been going on for aslong as I have been here with the exception that the recent toxicity has reached a level that is not tolerable anymore. All these personal attacks and childish troll attempts make you all look like spoiled little hypocrits.

Good on Jigsaw for speaking some sense but solely putting blame on a selected few and brushing everyone else's behaviour under the carpet - or using it as an excuse - won't solve anything.
11-24-2018
RTG`

That's bullcrap chis. At the end of the day most of the people are appreciating the good side of the work that you guys are doing, even if they dont express it with words. They chose to support you guys by contributing their preciois time and playing on the servers, that means they enjoy it. We are obviously not talking about some public retards with issues, if that is what you are reffering to.

We need to grow, yes, but you guys also have to grow. Because with the drama being positive or negative, it is criticism aimed at improving yourself (and grow). Don't forget that. You are looking for appreciation when you dont show appreciation yourself. Hope that makes sense.
11-24-2018
Cella_V2

Quote:

Originally Posted by |uK|chiseller

As an admin, the majority of time you get personally insulted for actions that the player brought upon himself. This has been going on for aslong as I have been here with the exception that the recent toxicity has reached a level that is not tolerable anymore. All these personal attacks and childish troll attempts make you all look like spoiled little hypocrits.

Sorry to break your bubble here friend, but I am not so sure what you are expecting when the majority of the admins/mods are provoking players on a daily basis and then decide to blame the players when they actually respond to your excessive trolling. I wont be pointing directly at you Chiseller cause ur one of the few that didnt, but for example Blaze, Sam, Kenneth, Banny all had their parts in this. I wont speak for myself anymore cause I lack sympathy for any of the members on uK but the uK discord felt like a `la la ill say what I want you cant touch me anyway cause I have status on this server, and if you do respond ur banned enjoy!'

Also when Skarn got banned for such a tiny thing as not willing to captain and you decide to tear-role him so he cannot talk on the server and defend himself in general, and then be surprised he joins the server to make a statement, banning him for an even longer amount of time. You think a regular pug player will just accept that? If you do, you lacked some serious awareness in this community.

For what its worth, I never accepted the way people like skarn, skaarj and jigsaw (to some extent) joked about cancer/kumar. It has been one of the reasons why I didnt like being in BM cause I didn't want to be associated with that. And I also agree that they often like to go too far when it comes to reacting, but the measurements taken in the last few weeks (the IST-ban, the new server) all added up to the point where we are at now. Sometimes you just have to come off your high horses and read the situation on a bigger scale and judge like a mere being instead of admin and this wouldnt have happened.

It really shouldn't have come to this point, but now that it did I doubt it can be helped. Theres a reason why people never had real issues with Moskva compared to other mods/admins. There's really not a magical formula needed to get along with other siege players.

Lastly B|aze, ill just be frank and say that I dont like you nor your brother at all, but I do apologize for the time I insulted you personally, cause no one deserves that and thats not who I am.

Ciao
11-24-2018
A^3

👳
11-24-2018
Skarn

:minigun
11-24-2018
DANGERBOY

The second "community" ISN'T about taking over siege and pugs.(It wasn't made for that, belive me).It's made for UK to realise that they are doing something wrong(players are dirty too not gonna lie BUT TALK INSTEAD OF BAN FFS) which was about to make players leave ut community fully, that was 1 way to save it somehow and if you are willing to change with us(players) we can still save it in my opinion.But guys its a fact that 50% of the bans are by pple who dont even pug that often OR rage bans and i think its pretty unfair that way. It's not a threat, we can create a talk channel(id prefer blaze instead of sam(no offense..oki maybe a little) and figure something out to save the game..And obviously we really Thank most of the admins WITH being on server, testing , signing up on their tournament,being part of the discord channel etc etc etc. even tho we didnt say it(some of us did including myself not long ago) we cant say thank you evry day tho.(it'd be ass lickingplez) It's about saving the game and the community, its NOT back stabbing, had to cool down some player to make this happen, but we will have to work together to do so. I'm pretty sure that evryone likes the game enough, to make a switch. IF YOU aren't willing to make a swich, tell me then.
THERE IS NO COMMUNITY WITHOUT FIGHTING OR TROLLS OR DRAMAS. THERE IS NO WAY THAT YOU ARE GOING TO LIKE EVRYONE, IF YOU DON'T LIKE SOMEONE JUST LEAVE HIM/HER THE FUCK ALONE.
hi
11-24-2018
snakeware

Quote:

Originally Posted by DANGERBOY

The second "community" ISN'T about taking over siege and pugs.(It wasn't made for that, belive me).It's made for UK to realise that they are doing something wrong(players are dirty too not gonna lie BUT TALK INSTEAD OF BAN FFS) which was about to make players leave ut community fully, that was 1 way to save it somehow and if you are willing to change with us(players) we can still save it in my opinion.But guys its a fact that 50% of the bans are by pple who dont even pug that often OR rage bans and i think its pretty unfair that way. It's not a threat, we can create a talk channel(id prefer blaze instead of sam(no offense..oki maybe a little) and figure something out to save the game..And obviously we really Thank most of the admins WITH being on server, testing , signing up on their tournament,being part of the discord channel etc etc etc. even tho we didnt say it(some of us did including myself not long ago) we cant say thank you evry day tho.(it'd be ass lickingplez) It's about saving the game and the community, its NOT back stabbing, had to cool down some player to make this happen, but we will have to work together to do so. I'm pretty sure that evryone likes the game enough, to make a switch. IF YOU aren't willing to make a swich, tell me then.
THERE IS NO COMMUNITY WITHOUT FIGHTING OR TROLLS OR DRAMAS. THERE IS NO WAY THAT YOU ARE GOING TO LIKE EVRYONE, IF YOU DON'T LIKE SOMEONE JUST LEAVE HIM/HER THE FUCK ALONE.
hi

*laughs in hungarian
11-24-2018
SAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krikor

Then why wait until things went downhill to have a conversation that should have happened time ago? Why suddenly try to talk to them when they get games in other channels? I mean, they could have too before, but how can they if they are always getting banned and muted all the time?

There was no waiting. I only started receiving messages recently from the team saying they are struggling with all the drama and that they needed me to help deal with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krikor

Well just to name one, but it was discussed already, having a ban directly affect IST.

Unfortunately, when certain players abuse privilege resources, that's what happens. The match could have happened elsewhere. I made this clear from the beginning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snakeware

yet you guys fail to see the Big part of the problem, you guys dont see your flaws, even with the whole community pointing at them, you dont want to admit/fix your bad decisions. How can you still think everyone is wrong but you SAM.. its just dissapointing.

If I didn't see the flaws, I wouldn't have multiple conversations with the mod team, explaining why situationally, things may seem or appear unfair on you guys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snakeware

To be honest I always admired blaze for keeping up with the communty regardless of how he treated some people
but you cant deny the fact that the community went downhill when banny got moderador, I didnt have anything against him, or have anything personal against him now, I had fun playing with you in the past and I have talked with you in the past and it was always cool and good,i respect what you do for the community, but man, open your eyes..you suck as an admin

I think banny got a bit engrossed and misinterpreted his role, in trying to make sure everything is fair and he did that with the best of intentions, to ensure everybody had a good time.

It's been a steep learning curve for Banny and I explained to him and the other mods, over the past days, why they should not override the bot - that it does not matter if the bot picks unfair captains, it is not their executive deicision to make, to reset captains, or teams, where they feel the picks are uneven. The game should proceed, unless the captains both agree or the majority people involved, agree to reset.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snakeware

One last thing, why do you keep saying looking at the PAST wont fix anything, like where else can we look?, we have the past to proof what decisions are bad and what should be change, dont try to hide your flaws on that nonsense phrase that you been repeating all these days "past wont solve anything as there is no way to prove it"

There is nothing to prove. The fact that I have had various conversations, in the mod and admin channels, on voice etc, should have been enough for you guys to know that we acknowledge that there may be a problem. The issue with bringing up the past is, I cannot verify what happened. Which is why I suggested, that anything that happens going forwards, needs to be reported to me, asap, so that I can investigate and verify both sides of the story and I will take the appropriate action.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTG`

We have devoted ourselves and contributed to this community for so many years, yet this is the treatment we are getting back. I don't want to be treated like someone special because of that, I want to be treated like a human, simple as that, If you could actually understand and value that SAM. Ruining the IST league for my whole team and trying to talk with SAM was the biggest wound and disrespect I have ever received and people would not understand it unless they put themselves in my shoes.

I'm unsure as to why this is such a personal issue for you. Your team members were banned because they abused privileges, numerous times. I gave them opportunity to stop but they chose to keep escalating their bad behaviour. I'm sorry but I don't reward bad behaviour with increased privileges.

The ban did affect an IST match and that is regrettable. I did not take the decision to enforce the ban lightly. But the fact of the matter is, the IST match could have happened in various other servers. I cannot be held responsible for the behavioural consequences of others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTG`

We are simply people who interacted with each other for years and years.
And the hateful way SAM reacted to our community was so toxic that it was out of this universe, we are not aiming to be your competitors, we never will, we simply want to escape the dictatorship that is put out on us, people simply cant take it anymore and try to run away from it. It's been going for so long, how do you expect it to change in a snap Jigsaw.

I did not react hatefully to your community. The admin and mod team are tired of dealing with children. We are adults, we already have stressful lives, responsibilities and jobs. We don't need that increased tenfold, having to deal with the six of you, that have been removed. You wanted a way out, because apparently, I am a dictator. I facilitated your way out, but I'm still the bad guy. That's real smart man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTG`

The thing what frustrates me the most is how incredibly aggressive SAM is, and his misunderstanding of everyone (and me). But now that there is a knife put to your throat you actually start calming down and listening in despair.

Before this all imploded on Wednesday, where I was speaking to Jigsaw on the pug channel, I had a very long conversations with the mod team, in the days before, about what has been happening. We discussed a number of situations and they raised various events that had taken place.

In summary, a lot of this is their fault, because they failed to deal with problems from the beginning and they were too lenient. They let friendships with people, that I will not name, appear as though, they were favourable to them. They allowed toxic people to manipulate them into thinking taking action will kill the community.

The fact that all of this happened so late, was down to the fact that I needed time to investigate. But I didn't have time and none of you gave me time. You all kept escalating matters, the daily dramas continued, to the point where, actually, to me, you were the major disruptors. I couldn't even say two sentences without being interrupted with troll comments, troll emojis or random screenshots from the past.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cella_V2

Also when Skarn got banned for such a tiny thing as not willing to captain and you decide to tear-role him so he cannot talk on the server and defend himself in general, and then be surprised he joins the server to make a statement, banning him for an even longer amount of time. You think a regular pug player will just accept that? If you do, you lacked some serious awareness in this community.

The reason why we tear role people, is because the bot does not have a block function yet. Therefore, when the tear role is applied, it is best to wait an hour or two to wait for it to be lifted. Or, just message an admin or mod. Not inflame the whole situation and make it worse, by rejoining, spamming, getting banned, spamming servers etc.
11-24-2018
CoD|JIgSaW

Quote:

Originally Posted by |uK|chiseller

That's rich. This community has rarely ever showed any appreciation for the work that was put in. As an admin, the majority of time you get personally insulted for actions that the player brought upon himself. This has been going on for aslong as I have been here with the exception that the recent toxicity has reached a level that is not tolerable anymore. All these personal attacks and childish troll attempts make you all look like spoiled little hypocrits.

Good on Jigsaw for speaking some sense but solely putting blame on a selected few and brushing everyone else's behaviour under the carpet - or using it as an excuse - won't solve anything.

Ok,I'll agree with you on the fact that banny is not the only one to blame for all this,but he is definitely the only one who's guilty of STARTING it and i've shown why above,that's undeniable.Other mods and players including myself are responsible for adding fuel to the fire but when it comes to who plays the biggest role in this ....
Also,toxicity hasn't reached untolerable levels,however the amount of retarded weekly bans has done that

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAM

@CoD|JIgSaW

I've had long conversations with the Mod teams about how they should be modding. In the Skarn situation, where he didn't want to captain, the first thing that should have happened is, SW should have been banned.

The second thing that should have happened is, Skarn should have been removed.

The problem is, every single one of you, keep getting involved in individual ban issues and ganging up on mods, on behalf of you friends. This makes fair enforcing and moderation of rules impossible. We don't have an issue with joking and trolling. But trolling situations where the behaviour is inflammatory, is extremely difficult for us to manage. Because it quickly spirals out of control.

Good luck.

Again,you fail to see the core problem.Why in the fk should silverwing be banned ? He said before the pug that he was going to be afk.Him and the other 9 players joined to play a game, they didn't join the fucking military.You expect all 10 people to check the discord server from minute to minute to see if the pug has filled becausee of the fear of getting a stupid ban ? Do you even realise how unpractical that is ?

If someone doesn't want to or can't captain just let them be and restart the pug,you have 9 other captain choices or in this case 8.When I played in pg and someone didn't want to captain they always restarted,when i played in uk a few weeks ago you also did the same.Tell me how does someone not wanting to captain have any effect on the actual game ? Remember it's a god damn game.

If I punch one of your friends in front of you in the face won't you react or get involved either ? Of course skaarj and skarn got involved when I got muted,fleece only stated her reason way way after they started spamming the servers like retards.That whole situation could have been avoided if fleece didn't act like a prick and just stated her reason when snake asked why I got muted.Simple.You only see skarn and skaarj trolling,but you don't see fleeces fault.Also I couldn't pm because I didn't even know who did it.I remember in the past you had a rule like mods should state their reasons on the server bans,why is that not the case anymore ? Again,easily avoidable

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAM

We can't improve things by constantly talking about and bringing up the past. I know rules were not enforced correctly, fairly or universally. And I have spoken about this to all the moderators.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAM

There is nothing to prove. The fact that I have had various conversations, in the mod and admin channels, on voice etc, should have been enough for you guys to know that we acknowledge that there may be a problem. The issue with bringing up the past is, I cannot verify what happened. Which is why I suggested, that anything that happens going forwards, needs to be reported to me, asap, so that I can investigate and verify both sides of the story and I will take the appropriate action.

At least you acknowledge that rules haven't been enforced correctly, fairly or universally.At least I got that out of you.Don't you think that it would've been reasonable to tell the players that have been banned this too instead of defending these bad bans ? Maybe if for once fleece said "Hey look I banned you unfairly sorri" I can gurantee you I or others wouldn't have acted so hostile but instead all of you were acting like nothing ever happened and expected players to just suck it up.

I think the argument with the past is the dumbest I've read in the entire thread.If someone raped a baby 10 years ago and the police would find clues about that,do you think they wouldn't investigate further and just brush it off and say :AH WELL CAN'T VERIFY IT SO DON'T BRING IT UP,IF HE DOES IT AGAIN WE'LL GET HIM.Do you really think that you can't form an objective point of view if you have discord logs,screenshots and you can also ask neutral players about those situations.I've presented what happened as objective as I could then I gave you my input,maybe you can do the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAM

In summary, a lot of this is their fault, because they failed to deal with problems from the beginning and they were too lenient. They let friendships with people, that I will not name, appear as though, they were favourable to them. They allowed toxic people to manipulate them into thinking taking action will kill the community.

The fact that all of this happened so late, was down to the fact that I needed time to investigate. But I didn't have time and none of you gave me time. You all kept escalating matters, the daily dramas continued, to the point where, actually, to me, you were the major disruptors. I couldn't even say two sentences without being interrupted with troll comments, troll emojis or random screenshots from the past.

If this is their fault then why are the players banned ? :thonk:

Also great misrepresentation of what happened,for once I tried to actually have a constructive discussion on discord with you and you call it trolling.You said we talked for 2 hours.I remember me you and banny discussing about skarns ban and then banny asked me to find instances of him resetting pugs for no reason.I did exactly that,I was making my point by showing you what had happened in the past through screenshots.Occasionally Shiro was saying something dumb and I was reacting with an emoji to it.How is that trolling ? Get over yourself grandpa...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAM

The reason why we tear role people, is because the bot does not have a block function yet. Therefore, when the tear role is applied, it is best to wait an hour or two to wait for it to be lifted. Or, just message an admin or mod. Not inflame the whole situation and make it worse, by rejoining, spamming, getting banned, spamming servers etc.

Tear role has stayed there numerous times for 24 or even more hours,I don't think I 've seen it once being removed after 2 hours as you claim.

Lastly, banny you haven't adressed any of my points so I'll take that as a victory.I agree that IF everything goes back to normal everyone will act more maturely..:cool:
11-24-2018
RTG`

Wrong answers SAM, wrong answers yet again.. I can't believe how blind and ignorant some people tend to be. You may have started listening, but yet again you are not taking into consideration any of the things that the community discussed with you.

In conclusion SAM, the reality is that you don't care about your community as much as you care about your own ignorant interest and believes. And then you wonder why people are signing off from this community. Even when things went so bad for the community that you "care about so much", you are still defending your ignorant view of the situations, which made people leave in the first place...

Lesson learned? Unfortunately, no.
11-25-2018
Banny

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoD|JIgSaW

If I punch one of your friends in front of you in the face won't you react or get involved either ? Of course skaarj and skarn got involved when I got muted,fleece only stated her reason way way after they started spamming the servers like retards.That whole situation could have been avoided if fleece didn't act like a prick and just stated her reason when snake asked why I got muted.Simple.You only see skarn and skaarj trolling,but you don't see fleeces fault.Also I couldn't pm because I didn't even know who did it.I remember in the past you had a rule like mods should state their reasons on the server bans,why is that not the case anymore ? Again,easily avoidable

Fleece stated her reason that time but nobody is talking about that and yet giving shit to the mods/admins. I still remember berserk came in server and calling fleece a whore or something like that, or other players throwing stereotypes at me because I'm Indian? Tell me why is it so important for us to judge everybody's character? If your mum or sister scolded you in the past did you just go and called her a whore? If this community is supposed to be a family then why cannot be act like one? I'm totally fine with friendly banter but straight up attack somebody's character with derogatory remarks/racism/stereotypes is another level of low. People are always giving shit to SAM that how he banned certain area of israel and that hes racist (to jews) yet when I was countless of times faced with racism and stereotypes nobody thought about it?

Here is when she explained her reason (it was not chis that time, they keep changing names) and yet skarn skaarj still came on spamming servers, discords, interrupting pugs but I'm ready to move on because past is past.
https://i.imgur.com/51nz435.png

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoD|JIgSaW

I think the argument with the past is the dumbest I've read in the entire thread.If someone raped a baby 10 years ago and the police would find clues about that,do you think they wouldn't investigate further and just brush it off and say :AH WELL CAN'T VERIFY IT SO DON'T BRING IT UP,IF HE DOES IT AGAIN WE'LL GET HIM.Do you really think that you can't form an objective point of view if you have discord logs,screenshots and you can also ask neutral players about those situations.I've presented what happened as objective as I could then I gave you my input,maybe you can do the same.

Your analogy has too much flaw in it. If a baby was raped 10 years ago, you would expect for an investigation or action or file a report right on that moment of time and not literally after 10 years have past. If the ban(s) were the problem, it should've been taken to a higher authority e.g. SAM or Blaze at that moment of time. You cannot expect to scroll up things and give your judgement. There's a thing called "context". You'd have to literally taken into account everything that happened that moment of time. When SAM banned skaarj and skarn there were 3 situations created. They spammed discord, they spammed pug server, they kept coming in pug and kept interrupting even when they were muted/kicked. This is what you call context. This is why bringing up the past right now won't help at all because theres too many variables to take into account for and takes alot of time to give a fair judgement. Hence, Always forward. We need to move on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoD|JIgSaW

Lastly, banny you haven't adressed any of my points

I said it before and will say it now as well, it is the past and when stories are made up involving past theres a thing called BIAS. and BIAS leads to more drama.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoD|JIgSaW

so I'll take that as a victory.I agree that IF everything goes back to normal everyone will act more maturely..

I don't care what you think. It is true that you and couple of other players may not see eye to eye with me but If this is what it takes to have clean start and move forward then so be it.
11-25-2018
RTG`

It begins...

Tell me banny, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, when did I ever called fleece a whore??????? And why is fleece still believing that guy and not looking at the actual picture herself?

The only insults I said to fleece were 2 things - and they were not personal insults, but instead, I insulted her actions. I will attach a short snipped of a long conversation we had in public. If anyone wants to read the full convo, PM me.

http://i66.tinypic.com/t88707.png

I know, pretty childish stuff I said, but that is the only "bad" thing I said about her. I have never EVER insulted fleece PERSONALLY even in private TDN conversations, there is a difference. I have insulted her actions and ways of handling. Don't get me wrong, that is still wrong and it was my mistake, but it's far more *soft* than calling someone a whore, which is ten times more disrespectful. Trying to say "I called her a whore or something" is still not an excuse because the way you are portraying it is far worse than the actual picture and you know it yourself.

So back to the story - fleece comes up to me and says "I heard you have been talking smack to me behind my back". Yes, I have been... privately in the TDN group. But never did I ever insulted fleece personally. All I did was explain in the TDN group how fleece saved cheat from being perma banned from IST and I tried to compare it with my situation, because its pretty much the same thing no matter how you look at it, and it goes to show how admins care for each other but not for their community. But banny, being the kind guy he is, decided to tell fleece what I said in private from the TDN group... Basically, leaking private TDN convos - what an honest guy. I don't know what else you said to fleece in context to that and I have no idea what lies you said to fleece to get her so mad, but why are you continuing on backstabbing people?

I'm not trying to defend myself, but just imagine for a second, being in my position, where you are the weakest team of IST, being raped 100-0, having the next match scheduled and then all the sudden not being able to play that match because someone is feeling power hungry. I never even had the chance to play with my strongest lineup, involving skaarj, where I finally got to play with him and only to get him banned like a dog.

And also adding fuel to the fire - where I got banned from the servers, from discord, blocked by SAM with no chance to speak to him on DMs. Throwing all the things I did for this community, as little as they are, they matter - Because its not about feeling special or getting free pass, its about respect, if SAM could actually understand it. And like Jigsaw said, this is not military. Maybe next time I need to spread my asshole wider so it would be easier for some people to rape.

So with that situation going on, some of you might suck it up and deal with it, but for me personally, something snapped in my head and my mind went crazy over it and that was the result. But that doesn't matter, right? Because we are supposed to be in the military.
11-25-2018
Banny

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTG`

It begins...

Tell me banny, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, when did I ever called fleece a whore??????? And why is fleece still believing that guy and not looking at the actual picture herself?

The only insults I said to fleece were 2 things - and they were not personal insults, but instead, I insulted her actions. I will attach a short snipped of a long conversation we had in public. If anyone wants to read the full convo, PM me.

http://i66.tinypic.com/t88707.png

I know, pretty childish stuff I said, but that is the only "bad" thing I said about her. I have never EVER insulted fleece PERSONALLY even in private TDN conversations, there is a difference. I have insulted her actions and ways of handling. Don't get me wrong, that is still wrong and it was my mistake, but it's far more *soft* than calling someone a whore, which is ten time more disrespectful. Trying to say "I called her a whore or something" is still not an excuse because the way you are portraying it is far worse than the actual picture and you know it yourself.

So back to the story - fleece comes up to me and says "I heard you have been talking smack to me behind my back". Yes, I have been... privately in the TDN group. But never did I ever insulted fleece personally. All I did was explain in the TDN group how fleece saved cheat from being perma banned from IST and I tried to compare it with my situation, because its pretty much the same thing no matter how you look at it, and it goes to show how admins care for each other but not for their community. But banny, being the kind guy he is, decided to tell fleece what I said in private from the TDN group... Basically, leaking private TDN convos - what an honest guy. I don't know what else you said to fleece in context to that and I have no idea what lies you said to fleece to get her so mad, but why are you continuing on backstabbing people?

I'm not trying to defend myself, but just imagine for a second, being in my position, where you are the weakest team of IST, being raped 100-0, having the next match scheduled and then all the sudden not being able to play that match because someone is feeling power hungry. I never even had the chance to play with my strongest lineup, involving skaarj, where I finally got to play with him and only to get him banned like a dog.

And also adding fuel to the fire - where I got banned from the servers, from discord, blocked by SAM with no chance to speak to him on DMs. Throwing all the things I did for this community, as little as they are, they matter - Because its not about feeling special or getting free pass, its about respect, if SAM could actually understand it. And like Jigsaw said, this is not military. Maybe next time I need to spread my asshole wider so it would be easier for some people to rape.

So with that situation going on, some of you might suck it up and deal with it, but for me personally, something snapped in my head and my mind went crazy over it and that was the result. But that doesn't matter, right? Because we are supposed to be in the military.

Do you even read your own screenshots? She herself said that the when it was none of our faults yet you've been giving us shit for something not even our fault and yet on top of that such derogatory remarks like "licked her pussy" is just your sugarcoated way of portraying bad image of a person. Not to forget that you disrespected chamberly and made a youtube video about it because that's what it has become, let's shame people more and degrade their character as much as we can, right? You clearly do not think with your head. Despite the 1000 times we said we have no control yet you kept harassing and blaming us for everything.

Do you get why bringing up the past is of no use at all? Because it brings the cycle of drama again? I even said it in my post that mistakes were made and past should be past. Learn to respect if you want to thrive in a community.
11-25-2018
Cella_V2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banny

Not to forget that you disrespected chamberly and made a youtube video about it because that's what it has become, let's shame people more and degrade their character as much as we can, right? You clearly do not think with your head.

Dont pretend that you are some kind of holy saint dude. You played along in this shaming as much as Berserk did. Atleast take responsibility for your own actions aswell. I have already said it before but I think you are a super slimy person both now and in the past a.k.a. a hypocrit.
11-25-2018
Banny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cella_V2

Dont pretend that you are some kind of holy saint dude. You played along in this shaming as much as Berserk did. Atleast take responsibility for your own actions aswell. I have already said it before but I think you are a super slimy person both now and in the past a.k.a. a hypocrit.

I wasn't the one who made the video nor was I the one which spread "the source". Yes when it was brought up by someone on voice, I did act cringy because it was inappropriate and even the thought of it was inappropriate aswell but I was never involved in making it viral and whatever it is.
11-25-2018
Cella_V2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banny

I wasn't the one who made the video nor was I the one which spread "the source". Yes when it was brought up by someone on voice, I did act cringy because it was inappropriate and even the thought of it was inappropriate aswell but I was never involved in making it viral and whatever it is.

I dont think `acting cringy because it was inappropriate` and saying `ohhh berserk haha` in voice isnt much better. Just seems like ur masking ur actions to make them look less relevant, but ur equally as guilty.
11-25-2018
Banny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cella_V2

I dont think `acting cringy because it was inappropriate` and saying `ohhh berserk haha` in voice isnt much better. Just seems like ur masking ur actions to make them look less relevant, but ur equally as guilty.

However you wanna see it. If people had problems from me because of something feeling abit too personal then I've always apologized and tried not to repeat it again. Humak had to ask once and till date I made sure I didn't repeat it again, teddy had to ask once and I didn't repeat it ever again
11-25-2018
RTG`

Yet again banny making assumptions on his own when me and Chamberly were the ones involved with it, not including the fact that I've already spoken in DMs with Chamberly half a year ago about it.

Banny just keeps on failing to see the points over and over again.
11-25-2018
|uK|fleecey

Yes, I have failed my duties as an admin in many pugs, to reset, banned (or muted) players. But I also see faults in many players, as someone mentioned here. I think many of us have made wrong decisions and this is where we are now.

I honestly (or maybe don't remember) .. but someone calling me whore? I didn't even know about it as far as i remember and nor do i even care what people say behind my back, i don't take the insults personal, because after all its the internet and its a game, everyone have said something about someone in this game, you can't deny that. If berserk want to shit talk about me in a group there or here, let him, i dont really care and even if i did care, its nothing i can do about it then move on and just play the game.
but yes, i hope that we can move forward with clean slates, all of us.
and yes, sam have talk to us mod/admins about our faults for watching the channel and such, cant say he didn't, because trust me, he did..

I also think the muting is a bit harsh, 24 hours and cant defend themself, like sam said, 2 hours should be enough.

and lastly, Jigsaw, after banning you for being 1 min late was wrong by me, yes blaze talked to me but i wanted to remove the ban, but i didn't know how, so i asked for help and we all tried to remove it. I apologize for it.
11-25-2018
snakeware

im ready to forgive and to be forgiven as long as admins also fix their attitude regarding bans and banny moderador power be removed
11-26-2018
SAM

Banny's moderator is not being removed. We are working with banny instead to skill him up on how to mod properly.
11-26-2018
SAM

I've added the Discord invite again and I've lifted the bans.
11-27-2018
Spiderman

@SAM @ Blaze if u do care for community and players playing on then i will suggest that mods for pug should be made on basis of voting from regular pug players (Only regular pug players should b allowed to vote and to select what mods they want). And the ban rules and duration of bans should also be discussed with regular pug players. let it b the community of players rather than imposing self made rules by a certain group of people. Otherwise you already know whats going on...