Admin (Higor?) acting badly again.

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06-26-2016
1Shot1Kill

Quote:

Originally Posted by DANGERBOY

evry single map, except aleria.
i love your build on bluevember, making a platform in tunnel so they can shoot it and ur team cant go in the tunnel. Man its so smart, should teach it to the new players!!! omg i wish i was that good as you 1build1leech my man. i really really enjoy reading your posts, it always makes me think about why are we so bad and ur so good omg :( if the pug comes back please join, I like the players with 3% eff in my team (its my fav number)!!

If you can't get past playform and into tunnel then you are shitvat moving bcause everyone else has no peoblem getting past. A platform is cheap way to block that first nuke or thise trying to bounce into base. What is your idea, no builds, invitations for them to come on in? Stupid!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Scourge

Oh boy, where to start.

- Aleria - Multiple super suppliers in front of SC, along with an unnecessary container attempting to funnel incoming players into a super mine. You don't need that container for funneling if you build the sc properly; the result is ensuring a profit on RU every time someone nukes. The only reason this doesn't eventually result in a catastrophic collapse of your base is either because your team is stacked or you're spamming mines - or both. But if those be the case, why bother at all wasting 6600+ RU on that defense while also giving extra RU to the enemy?

Hypocrit! I have seen you make the same build! If some boot makes the SC too far toward the wall I have to put at least two containers next to it so they can't slip past the SM. If placed right, and only a handful of us do so, containers are not needed. The other problem is that the SM has to be midway up to prevent jetpackers from flying over it. I can't always get players to remove geir SC when it is misplaced so the best I can do is try to improvise and fix it. It works! But the other problem is that if the other SC is not placed correctly a nuke will destroy the SM and no one seems to see the urgency in replacing it right away but me most times. That means a coordinated team gets in and nukes core. I can only work with what I have.... As for the two to three SS on the other side they are the only thing that can block a nuke from getting deep penitration thus destroying the SM's. Problem is the minishields are shit and get taken out with just one nuke. Those geniuses that criticize that build never seem to have a better idea. Some people just love to hate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scourge

- Shit/Bluevember - Containers above the tunnel, often with an SP to match. This requires 100% camping to be at all effective, because if you don't I can bounce rockets off of the tunnel's front wall and onto the cluster you built. This is the major one, netting me more than enough nukes and stealth kits to invade, usually at overtime.

As I have said, no defense is unleechable. Funny you point out that minor leech but fail to acknowlege the major leech created by placong two sc's there.... BTW, the SP is effective in keeping out piston jumpers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scourge

- Simplex - Paranoid of chimney teles, you build a fuckton of defense that splashes well and that can only be guarded by insta/sniper campers. If they ever leave, a player can get hundreds of RU per life from your buildings there while swatting away any defense thanks to the SB.

Paranoid? No. Aware, yes. I have been experimenting with positioning the containers outside the chimney, so no leech. But not to put a SP there is negligence and inviting a tele there. If you have a better way I have not seen you build it yet!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scourge

- McSwartzly - Your water defense usually consists of camping an SP located next to two or more splashable containers. If you're going to build a water SP, at least make sure its supports can't be splashed, whether through rocket or shock. This isn't exclusively your problem, but you're not innocent of it.

Give me a break! That build is only at the very start to keep enemy from coming into base. The end build result is a SS and SC to maintain it. A SP above, and a SM in the water or at top of tunnel. Resources are limited, pick your poison. There is always a leech, always a way in, always someone like you and Higor to complain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scourge

The force field has mainly three purposes in Simplex when placed in the door - Block translocators, prevent nukes from getting deeper into the base, and reduce damage to SPs/poison guardians. The trouble is that none of these purposes are fully served by an FF alone, and the extent to which they're served doesn't give quite as decisive an advantage as complete control of the middle. Successful control of mid means fast and cheap nukes, lots of RU, and super weapons for your team. This is particularly important against good fraggers like in the game Higor cited.

Thanks for that obvious explaination. You can never serve all three of those purposes with only one FF. You hav to make a choice. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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As much as I like talking about my builds, this thread was about Higor removing stuff and then abusing his admin rights by kicking those players who disagree. So what say you powers that be, is there any teeth to your rules or not?
06-28-2016
|uK|B|aZe//.

Okay to address the issues here, as @audiosonic says if someone removes a build and remakes it why does it matter when they are spending their own ru and you get yours back for other stuff?

Lastly @Higor as much as your build strategies work, its usually best to let them see their builds dont work when they're frantically running around trying to defend said builds. You're a mod but you're not exempt from the rules, if a build is massively affecting said game then a judgement call is made doesnt seem that was the case this time?
06-28-2016
Higor

Alright, I'll wait for owner disconnect before removing a questionable leech.
06-29-2016
Scourge

Quote:

Originally Posted by |uK|B|aZe//.

its usually best to let them see their builds dont work when they're frantically running around trying to defend said builds

The trouble is that I think a lot of players making builds that lose their team the game never make the connection between the way they build and how their team performs. Sometimes it's not even a question of how frantically they need to defend what they build, but rather that what they build has an insidious effect that doesn't manifest until much later in the game.

Take the containers people sometimes pile into the back of Simplex. Any nuker worth spit will be able to clear the door with their first nuke, then cash in on these with their second, then unleash an almighty barrage of shit on the enemy base the next round through. This concept seems hard to grasp for some, particularly if they don't use their RU to attack.
06-29-2016
Higor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scourge

particularly if they don't use their RU to attack.

I'll make a small correction.
I've seen MLSG finalists building like shit, but mostly because all they attack is the Core.
It's the master leechers that know how to properly build, despite a few not being so skilled at gunning down ppl, they do manage to farm huge amounts of RU in the worst conditions and their builds are always minimal/necessary.

I'm tempted to make a new set of RU based stats, probably compressing the SiegeStats into smaller text.
- RU net worth on teams using graphs (globally visible?)
- RU generated (with RU spent on items substracted so nukers don't get so much inflated scores)
- Economic damage (RU spent on buildings this player destroyed)
06-30-2016
Chamberly

I'd like to have an option to turn that on in spec and watch it as well.
06-30-2016
][X][~FLuKE~][X][

Quote:

Originally Posted by Higor

I'll make a small correction.
I've seen MLSG finalists building like shit, but mostly because all they attack is the Core.
It's the master leechers that know how to properly build, despite a few not being so skilled at gunning down ppl, they do manage to farm huge amounts of RU in the worst conditions and their builds are always minimal/necessary.

I'm tempted to make a new set of RU based stats, probably compressing the SiegeStats into smaller text.
- RU net worth on teams using graphs (globally visible?)
- RU generated (with RU spent on items substracted so nukers don't get so much inflated scores)
- Economic damage (RU spent on buildings this player destroyed)

Please don't, no need to layer even more useless sludge on top of the useless sludge you already have applied to siege as it is.

This isn't a world class game in a competition, this is a public server where people are allowed to build how they wish without anyone muscling in and deeming they know best. I have personally seen games lost because "Higor knows best". Aleria for example (as it has been used already), by using both SC's on one side as well as building leech style builds under the stairs thinking they could not get hit, when they can as I have leeched off them a couple times like it is a leech game.... but you know, Higor knows best. :rolleyes: I have to endure your shit placements that I feel hurt the team Higor, yet you don't see me physically rebuild your stuff do you. Before the "but....but...but.. you expect us to lose because a player hasn't placed builds like I would?... that is INSANE because I know best!!!!" pull your head out of your ass and allow people to build how they like.

No one has the right to remove other players builds, asking is all the power you have. What is so tough about that to understand Higor? you are told over and over to stop doing it, yet here we are again with you somehow staying out of the firing line. Punishing a mod or admin for doing something they would punish a player for is a must, not doing it gives the impression it is one rule for them and another for us, it should never be like that.

I have no problem at all removing any ego filled players regardless of who you are if other players are forced to feel inferior to these self proclaimed build experts. In Higors case, he feels he knows what is best as he devs siege. That is absolutely not the case as the variables of players in a public match cannot be estimated, hence why I have said before that dev testing is not even close to how it will be used in public.

Countless times I have asked people to move things, but I explain why as well. Most of the time it works and the player will move their builds. If the player chooses not to, then suck it up and get on with it. You can build like a spoilt brat the next map.

All of the self proclaimed expert gang acting like siege bullies.
06-30-2016
Scourge

I get it, Fluke, removing is a dick thing to do. But so is initially insisting on a shitty build that makes the effort others put into the game futile. I ask you, as someone who has called himself the voice of players that don't often get to reply to this sort of "I know best so I'm removing" nonsense, consider not just the people who get their builds removed but also players that have to pay the price for building decisions. That isn't just myself, that's everyone else on the team who's pulling to win but who finds themselves with the short end of the stick because a teammate built a "legal" leech. It's literally the same thing in reverse, "I know best so I'm going to put this shit here that makes it easy for the enemy team to win. Oh, and ha, ha, you can't remove it or I'll report you."

Take Deadman or LENNUK's builds as easy examples, or maybe @1Shot1Kill this as an easy example. Just yesterday, FireFet built a cluster of containers and an SP where it was easy to leech in all directions on ClarionUltimate. This hard and fast rule really needs more nuance than "they build, you put up with it, period."

I'll happily swallow a 2,000 match ban for all my removals and shitty replacements over the years. But I do strongly urge you, fleecy, and @SAM to consider changing the rule to "you break it, you buy it." If removals demonstrably result in a leechier build, your team losing (see Kate*Bush's case), or anything consequentially worse than the original builder's butthurt, then your penalty will be doled accordingly.

Now to be fair, in practice, this is usually how it's done. Many players often remove small stuff, but it nearly always has no negative impact on their team because the removals are done wisely. The only people I've seen banned for removal in recent memory are people who rage remove, so the mod team has been pretty good in enforcement when and where I think this rule matters in practical terms.

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