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Thread: Weapons

  1. #1
    Whicked Sick Higor's Avatar
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    Weapons

    You place 2 sticky objects on walls (like the camera in old siege), and anything that crosses between them receives 10-60 damage, depending on both object's level.
    The laser can be nearly invisible while the wall stickys glow and get destroyed easily.
    Distance limitations, damage amounts and other things to be discussed...


    Second idea: special volumes:
    - Slow Field: when you enter them everything becomes slow, including projectiles. These can be harmed if you hit the small center inside.
    Hitscan weapons could be nullified (optional) when you fire from outside to inside or the other way around, needs some research. Also, instead of nullifying the hitscan fire, it can actually harm the volume core (damage scaled to 20%).
    - Force field: we already have one, but we could use a version that allows firing from the inside of it.
    - Portable force field: small, it stickies to the owner, and can take up to 100-300 damage, owner can't fire or he will harm the force field (can be hacked to allow nukes to fire without problems).
    - Portable slow field: big, has timer (1-3 minutes) and can take 1000 hitscan damage, useful to force enemies to charge against the user (anti-sniper choice).
    - Disruptor field: can be placed to push incoming projectiles away, needs hitscan weapons to harm it.
    - Portable Fire disruptor: moves non-hitscan projectiles away from owner, requires hitscan weapons to kill him.
    - Portable projectile magnet: Works like a force field, but attracts projectiles towards the owner, can take 200-700 damage, 20% of that damage is taken by owner, useful to protect nuking/flaming teammates.
    - Booby trap: user gets killed and explodes.

    Special explosives:
    - Earthquake generator: useful to shake campers.
    - Portable shaker: like the above but portable and with less radius.

    Strategies will vastly vary when using this, imagine a projectile magnet divertine nukes away from the core, or a disruptor on it, or 2 dudes boobytrapping a supermine on a teleporter...
    Also, mid could spawn some portable volumes as well so they don't need to be built all the times.

    Limitations: special fields have minimum distance requirements among themselves to prevent exploits, huge RU cost including upgrades, only one volume per user, can't be used with any kind of suit (shield belt allowed).

    EDIT:
    Prototypes done so far:
    Water Field (summon WaterField.sgWaterField)
    AntiGravity modules (summon AntiGravity.AntiGravityPlatform) (summon AntiGravity.AntiGravityGear)
    HoverBoard (summon HoverBoard.sgHoverBoard)
    Last edited by Higor; 06-08-2012 at 07:32 PM.

  2. #2
    Rampage Feralidragon's Avatar
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    - Wall laser: I also thought about that once, but it's not that easy to do, as you either have several small collision hulls, or you have to trace everything single tick (with the latter some projectiles may pass with no problems at all, since it depends on tick and their speed, thus it's not guaranteed they would be detected), or worse, you would have to track pawns and projectile positions and movements (basically do your own custom collision physics with uscript).
    You will have to think very well on this one.

    - Slow field: Creavion requested me that one once. Never did it because it would cause a huge number of problems, besides being almost impossible to make one with regular uscript:
    * Slow player movement: good luck, honestly. You would have to slow down movement, aim, etc, which ends up being laggy (the player updates this stuff, then you would have to forcefully update this as well). Given that Siege is a gametype, you can do a new tournamentplayer subclass though to better manage this though, but even so...
    * Weapons: firerate, select anims, etc, unless you subclass all the UT weapons (and ZP) you cannot make them slower (well, you have the AnimRate var, not sure if this affects anything during the animation course though, you may try it);
    * Gravity: anything natively affected by gravity is impossible to control, unless you forcefully update their locations/speed, which is not advisable anyway for some reasons, being one: events (landing, hitwall, etc);
    * Effects: good luck slowing them down (aka subclassing them all to support that);
    * Tickrate controlled stuff in all these: again, unless you subclass them, anything they have on tick or timer will still be as fast. Lifespan is also based on tickrate, so inside a slow field things would have to last more, but for this you could just adjust the lifespan of the actor.
    Personally, I think you should quit slow field idea (at least at uscript level), unless you have already a solid plan to do it or limit it to just the few actually doable things

    - Forcefield: I already did that for my mod tbh. But to do that you either have to subclass all the projectiles to ignore the forcefield in that situation, or on touch (from outside in) or a visiblecollidingactors, you trigger the explode function in all the projectiles (except translocator and a few others which have to be specially handled). But then this creates the issue with hitscan: anything hitscan will pass, if you make it so it cannot pass, then projectiles may or not leave the forcefield successfully.
    Again, no easy solution on this one.

    - As for the others, they're ok to do (some more, others less, some have the limitations mentioned above).

    Don't get me wrong though, I also think they are nice ideas, but from my point of view, some of them simply aren't doable in plain uscript, and going native should not be considered an option for an online mod like this imo.
    Last edited by Feralidragon; 06-04-2012 at 08:35 AM.

  3. #3
    Administrator SAM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Higor View Post
    You place 2 sticky objects on walls (like the camera in old siege), and anything that crosses between them receives 10-60 damage, depending on both object's level.
    The laser can be nearly invisible while the wall stickys glow and get destroyed easily.
    Distance limitations, damage amounts and other things to be discussed...
    This is a good idea...however focusing on attack when defence is actually very weak is not the best idea imo. Also, how large will these be? How easy to kill, 100hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Higor View Post
    Second idea: special volumes:
    - Slow Field: when you enter them everything becomes slow, including projectiles. These can be harmed if you hit the small center inside.
    Hitscan weapons could be nullified (optional) when you fire from outside to inside or the other way around, needs some research. Also, instead of nullifying the hitscan fire, it can actually harm the volume core (damage scaled to 20%).
    Isn't this similar to poison guardian?

    Quote Originally Posted by Higor View Post
    - Force field: we already have one, but we could use a version that allows firing from the inside of it.
    I think the current forcefield should allow shooting through it anyway. This would prevent a new build

    Quote Originally Posted by Higor View Post
    - Portable force field: small, it stickies to the owner, and can take up to 100-300 damage, owner can't fire or he will harm the force field (can be hacked to allow nukes to fire without problems).
    - Portable slow field: big, has timer (1-3 minutes) and can take 1000 hitscan damage, useful to force enemies to charge against the user (anti-sniper choice).
    - Disruptor field: can be placed to push incoming projectiles away, needs hitscan weapons to harm it.
    - Portable Fire disruptor: moves non-hitscan projectiles away from owner, requires hitscan weapons to kill him.
    - Portable projectile magnet: Works like a force field, but attracts projectiles towards the owner, can take 200-700 damage, 20% of that damage is taken by owner, useful to protect nuking/flaming teammates.
    - Booby trap: user gets killed and explodes.
    Unsure about these but I suppose like with all new buildings, best to implement and test the concepts before brushing them aside. The booby trap is a good idea but it sounds like a mine unless you plan to make siege a little bit more interactive i.e. make some areas of the maps searchable with hidden goodies inside or something along those lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Higor View Post
    Special explosives:
    - Earthquake generator: useful to shake campers.
    - Portable shaker: like the above but portable and with less radius.
    What would the shake do? Move the camper/person? Or just shake the screen. If it is just a shake screen we actually have a warn mod that shakes client screen lol

  4. #4
    Whicked Sick Higor's Avatar
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    The booby trap would be another inventory item, when Destoyed() due to the owner getting killed it causes an explosion.
    It basically turns the player into a walking grenade, did that once and it's pretty damn fun, not to mention that in Siege, you can develop a whole new sort of immolation tactics (LOL).

    About the laser, spawning lots of 10x10 collision hulls in a straight line should solve the problem, using TraceActors will indeed allow some fast things to pass.
    The health of the laser casters could be the same or at least 75% to that of a mine, so laser casters should always be rebuilt after a successful nuke.
    BTW That's a nice there Feralidragon, didn't think about making the laser kill projectiles.

    About the shaker/earthquake generator, Unreal's built in generator also made the player hop a little making it impossible to stand still in a certain location, just think of AS-Overlord in the main cannon room, defense became too difficult for snipers everytime the cannon fired.
    We could simply make the earthquake generator cost 1000 RU and shake the entire map (only enemy players, 10 seconds) with huge strenght to make it extremely difficult to aim for defenders.
    The portable shaker (600 RU?) would simply shake anyone at 500 points distance from the carrier for 1 minute, this way the portable shaker becomes an extremely useful accesory for skilled attackers.

    I guess I'll have to brainstorm a little more with the volumes, I'll see what I come up with.

    The point of these suggestions is to give more choices in attack and defense, so instead of mines, mines, mines, SP, mines, mines, SP, one could simply try and improvise defense methods, just as attack becomes more varied and less predictable.
    Just think of Niven, a trapped team could really use some of the suggested items to it's advantage to get out of base.


    EDIT:
    Anyone thought of a Spiderman style hook as cheap locomotion method? Could work wonders in some open maps.
    Primary click makes it a grappling hook, and secondary one would simply make the player hang (useful for air constructions).

    EDIT 2:
    Directional booster: works like a booster, but boosts in the direction builder was aiming, it would be like a one way super booster (with a little arrow to show where it boosts) costing halfway the amount of ru (800?).
    Last edited by Higor; 06-04-2012 at 02:34 PM.

  5. #5
    Rampage Feralidragon's Avatar
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    Yeah, I understand the "why" of these suggestions. I also always thought Siege could use of more attacking and defensive buildings.
    Actually I thought in some, but they include the usage of vehicles and such to be fun (without vehicles they would be just plain overkill).

    That booby trap one, that's basically the relic of revenge -> me likes.

    I thought in a new kind of building: Nuclear Silo. The idea is to build a nuclear warhead silo, which after building you could setup time to launch and route to final destination (or the exact position it would automatically explode during that route). Once the time is up it would be automatically launched with great glory, from there it would be up to you and your team to protect the nuke from the enemy so it can go until the end. I was going to build this one in NW3, but I thought better and if I ever do this it will be in a new Siege-like gametype (it would be of no use in a weapon pack alone).

    Other stuff I thought:
    - Digger: A small controllable "thing" that would travel underground digging, and and could do just very small amounts of damage, or build very very basic stuff, as well as being a spy (could be destroyed by the enemy of course, the health would be very low as well).
    - Air strike: I guess this one is obvious;
    - A flying spy: a tiny controllable flying "thing" that could only be used to spy the enemy base (also destructible);
    - A "jericho" (iron-man reference) kind of rocket (also deployable like the silo), but a lot weaker ofc;
    - A clone (a non collidable copy of a player, running at a certain fixed offset from the player);
    - Time bomb: a bit similar to your slow field, but it would be for the entire map, affecting everyone, and for a few seconds (totally doable). The only advantage your team would have would be run faster (basically the "same speed" as before, but coding wise faster to match the previous speed at the current time rate), and your team buildings would still repair at the same speed, as well as attacking, etc. The weapons would be slow though (because of the reasons I stated above, plus even if it was doable it would be overpowered);
    - Something I call B.o.D. - Basically the ultimate offensive weapon that would cost the most RU (I won't enter in details about this one, but it's not a nuke, and you don't exactly fire it nor explode it, or anything like that, you cast it instead, it's something a bit twisted up :P);
    - And many others

    All of them feasible (I already thought how to do them), but so far didn't leave the drafts.

    Like you I thought in many other different buildings, but most of them aren't doable for UT, unfortunately.

    @EDIT1: Doesn't sound bad, but it would need at least 2/3 of the cost of a translocator (or the same cost).

    @EDIT2: Funny though, I also thought on that one once, but then I thought it would be quite useless (specially if pointed in some useless direction, it could be actually annoying). Perhaps picking on that idea, I think someone here already suggested this: a booster that boosts enemies away (in the direction you build that booster).
    The thing is, I think the player should be able to rotate that booster with the constructor.
    Last edited by Feralidragon; 06-04-2012 at 03:04 PM.

  6. #6
    Whicked Sick Higor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feralidragon View Post
    I thought in a new kind of building: Nuclear Silo. The idea is to build a nuclear warhead silo, which after building you could setup time to launch and route to final destination (or the exact position it would automatically explode during that route). Once the time is up it would be automatically launched with great glory, from there it would be up to you and your team to protect the nuke from the enemy so it can go until the end. I was going to build this one in NW3, but I thought better and if I ever do this it will be in a new Siege-like gametype (it would be of no use in a weapon pack alone).
    So you record the route before firing and allow yourself to defend the nuke.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feralidragon View Post
    - A flying spy: a tiny controllable flying "thing" that could only be used to spy the enemy base (also destructible);
    I like the idea, the old siege had a camera, making it nearly invisible would have served that purpose as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feralidragon View Post
    - A clone (a non collidable copy of a player, running at a certain fixed offset from the player);
    Duke nukem 3d!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Feralidragon View Post
    - Something I call B.o.D. - Basically the ultimate offensive weapon that would cost the most RU (I won't enter in details about this one, but it's not a nuke, and you don't exactly fire it nor explode it, or anything like that, you cast it instead, it's something a bit twisted up :P);
    Sounds like an explosive version of the BFG.


    One thing it'd be nice to do as well is a ghost player, it works like racing games where you complete a lap and and a ghost car appears.
    Here you'd place a Ghost Module (200 RU?), and start running, the following 60 or 90 seconds would be recorded (or until death), once recording finishes, you simply hit upgrade (100 ru) and an intangible clone starts running just like the recording.
    On each upgrade the level would stay at 0 so you could fire an unlimited amount of decoys.



    Quote Originally Posted by Feralidragon View Post
    @EDIT2: Funny though, I also thought on that one once, but then I thought it would be quite useless (specially if pointed in some useless direction, it could be actually annoying). Perhaps picking on that idea, I think someone here already suggested this: a booster that boosts enemies away (in the direction you build that booster).
    The thing is, I think the player should be able to rotate that booster with the constructor.
    Nice.

  7. #7
    Rampage Feralidragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Higor View Post
    So you record the route before firing and allow yourself to defend the nuke.
    That's the idea. You don't need to defend it though (you can preset a "dodgeable" route like if you guided a regular nuke), but it certainly gives you room to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Higor View Post
    Sounds like an explosive version of the BFG.
    It's not explosive (well, not directly as a bomb). I can actually add that it's a living thing (a huge living thing)
    I would need to make the whole model and animations myself though, this is not a regular thing to have in a game.

  8. #8
    The Best There Ever Will Be! |uK|B|aZe//.'s Avatar
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    PLEASE do not ADD A GRAPPLEHOOK TO SIEGE

  9. #9
    Moderator .seVered.]['s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Higor View Post
    The booby trap would be another inventory item, when Destoyed() due to the owner getting killed it causes an explosion.
    It basically turns the player into a walking grenade, did that once and it's pretty damn fun, not to mention that in Siege, you can develop a whole new sort of immolation tactics (LOL).
    This would be like "martyrdom" in Call of Duty? Which I do like... also the Claymore mine too from COD could be implemented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Higor View Post
    The portable shaker (600 RU?) would simply shake anyone at 500 points distance from the carrier for 1 minute, this way the portable shaker becomes an extremely useful accesory for skilled attackers.
    A minute is A LONG TIME in a siege game.
    Maybe we could allow more than one FF or PG?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feralidragon View Post
    - Digger: A small controllable "thing" that would travel underground digging, and and could do just very small amounts of damage, or build very very basic stuff, as well as being a spy (could be destroyed by the enemy of course, the health would be very low as well).
    - Air strike: I guess this one is obvious;
    - A flying spy: a tiny controllable flying "thing" that could only be used to spy the enemy base (also destructible);
    - A "jericho" (iron-man reference) kind of rocket (also deployable like the silo), but a lot weaker ofc;
    - A clone (a non collidable copy of a player, running at a certain fixed offset from the player);
    - Time bomb: a bit similar to your slow field, but it would be for the entire map, affecting everyone, and for a few seconds (totally doable). The only advantage your team would have would be run faster (basically the "same speed" as before, but coding wise faster to match the previous speed at the current time rate), and your team buildings would still repair at the same speed, as well as attacking, etc. The weapons would be slow though (because of the reasons I stated above, plus even if it was doable it would be overpowered);
    - Something I call B.o.D. - Basically the ultimate offensive weapon that would cost the most RU (I won't enter in details about this one, but it's not a nuke, and you don't exactly fire it nor explode it, or anything like that, you cast it instead, it's something a bit twisted up :P);
    - And many others
    These are great ideas too,
    AIR STIKE (+5), Not too expensive or accurate.
    FLYING SPY (+10), only if you can land on ANY surface. < LOVE IT.
    A CLONE (like in Total RECALL) , neat.

    Jeez, I work for 2 days and miss the entire party... AND ANYTHING with BOOBIES in it is gonna be a winner..(BoobyTrap)

  10. #10
    Whicked Sick |uK|Grimreaper's Avatar
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    Gamers that played red alert 2 and other versions will know this building

    how about tesla coil buildings that shoot electric beams to the enemy players that come close to that building
    its like a super protector but it only shoots 1 shot at a time that will do an amount of damage

    isnt this a good idea ?

    Click image for larger version. 

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