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  1. #41
    Whicked Sick Moko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAM View Post
    Shan you ever coming back???
    SHIVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA COME BACKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!

    And I still don't have my fangs like you said I'd get! :P

  2. #42
    Rampage nOs*Wildcard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feralidragon View Post
    Maturity and politeness are not "professional" things, and no one is asking anyone to be a "professional" (not sure how "profession" fits in this discussion either...).

    Anyway, let's go back 1,5 to 2 years, back then WildCard was still doing a few things for Siege. I remember that he would release some version, it would have some sort of game breaking bug and the users would actually understand that no one is perfect and then he managed to fix said bugs, and everyone ended up happy.
    Then WildCard stopped developing Siege for a long while and there are still no signs of a near new release (at least publicly), so what happened is that we had a series of "coders" that "attempted" to fix the remaining Siege issues while also adding something new.
    Let be completely honest here: since WildCard left, none of them was nearly skilled or knowledgeable enough to even actually understand the basics of the engine, let alone Siege itself, and the proof is right there in the front of your eyes: messed up code, lag and a multitude of bugs which are easily fixed for who actually knows what he's doing. However, such people existence was rare even back then, and even more rare nowadays.

    I was asked to fix it in a few occasions, however back then I didn't have time to (due to my other mod), but still provided a few fixes and explained how things work to a few, and also noticed some of the mess in that gametype due to the latest modifications, however I only pointed the most obvious ones and never mentioned the rest to not demotivate and respect who was actually trying to improve and fix it.

    Then, years later Higor pops up, and surprisingly he actually knows what he's doing and knows the engine very well, and was able to see the same mess and started to propose fixes and optimizations for them, and the only thing I actually had to stomp my foot in was that he was trying to use goto statements in some of them, and fortunately he listened and got rid of them in his code.
    Also he created a few discussions to check the best possible solutions for some problems and exploits, which shows he was open to suggestions and "better ideas".

    Now, he's actively developing Siege along with other things, and it happens that he may do some mistake, new bugs may arise, things may get unbalanced, etc, etc, and for some reason the overall community is not patient anymore. Despite the history of coders trying to improve Siege and which were somewhat "rookies" at it (sorry, but it's the truth), once someone more "pro" at it attempts to give it a more serious and clean development, the community seems to go mad every time things do not go as planned or some mistake is made in the way.
    If he's repeating the same mistakes, instead of treating him like a "slave" (SAM could not find a better word for it), then handle it privately and calmly and make a plan for a better and more organized way to avoid these, simple.
    Now, complaining alone and threatening in public are not going to help at all, besides being the worse show of authority I have seen in my life, when this guy can actually backfire by going to another community or clan, do a much better siege and let you guys eat the dust while he gets his own siege more popular than yours, then the roles would be reversed (and interesting to watch).

    Also, not only I, but some other devs who actually know the engine well are still in UT because of the community alone and nothing else, since compared with other gaming communities, the UT community was always far better, more mature and patient, so it was more pleasant and "rewarding" to actually *waste* time to develop for such, even if we ended up not actively playing the game.
    However, right now, you're no different from those bad gaming forums with everyone complaining and throwing rocks at the devs for every change and mistake, so basically your pushing the devs out of UT into other newer games or even UDK itself (or other SDK), since there's nothing else worth the time anymore (even the number of players dropped dramatically over the years, can you imagine how "fun" it is having the hard work to do something for just a few players? And how fun it is when you know these few players will still take a crap on you any time of the day anyway?).

    Do you even know how much time it can take for a dev to fix even the smallest bug? It can take a few minutes, to hours to even weeks.
    I had a bug in graviton for instance during development, a small online bug with its beam. It took me a week to fix it. Now imagine the scalability of effort for making things work for Siege as a whole, and knowing it will get stressed until juice comes out of it.... not easy.



    He was literally wasting 80min in a damn game, I am pretty sure whoever can spend 80min in a game has nothing else more important to do during that period, otherwise something would be very wrong with his persona.
    Also, if someone messed my server making it empty for one night, but because the said guy was doing something useful before but then forgot to put it back for whatever reason, no, I wouldn't get mad at all. I mean, just stop Siege development so the server can be always on, and I give it 2 years tops to die out with lack of players with all the games coming out in the meanwhile giving something new and fun.

    Just look at SLV, it was the most popular mod around for years and was constantly fighting with the uK Siege server for the first places, and from the moment development was stopped, it died about 2 years later. Same with many other mods I have seen so far: Zark, Funnel, MH, and the list goes on and some mods are dying as I post this.
    Also, if you try to host an old Siege server, let me know how many players you can get there. My bet is that even if you could redirect all Siege players to your server, they would leave, because they already know the old and is boring for them (and I already saw this happening with another mod).

    So again, keep it up. The last somewhat popular community that did pretty much the same died in about a year, so if it happens here too, don't blame the dev, blame yourselves, you're the ones with with the power to either pressure or support, and both have very different outcomes. It's in your hands now.

    Anyway, this is the last post I make in this thread (and probably one of the last ones of all) since apparently no amount of discussion will make you open your eyes until the day Higor comes and says "I'm done, bye", and even then you will probably be just like the other community that died out and just trash talk in his back.
    Damn, how I enjoyed the old community from years ago...
    @Feralidragon I hope you don't leave UT for good, if you do I'll miss you. I took my time sifting thru the red hot rage and read a lot here in this thread. I've absorbed most of it. I do understand the frustration that comes from the quality of the community from a devs perspective. I remember those years ago when I was developing SiegeXtreme 2 and how excited everyone with all the new stuff then inevitably all the requests came pouring in and then the flaming and then some silly nonsense about how a motion detector weighing in with slightly more health than a diet-warhead would be invinceible with 2 or more containers near it and how I needed to "think outside the box" :P lol. A short summary of that small rant, meh, Damnit! I got work tomarrow >:\ I'm not dead I been active still in between the times of work blowing stuff up with your nukes. I have a large assortment of never ending projects however my problem is I don't know when to quit. SiegeXtreme 3, Gauntlet 11, Polynullifier, Original Orbs, Undisclosed video project 001, Undisclosed video animation project sequal 002, Undisclosed game creation project 003, Treespawn nodeless actor placement concept/active testing, completely new mapvote with custom super FANCY GUI (not UWindows <-- HATE) because I hate MapVoteLa13's closed source and stringent limits ~DEBUG EATMEM

    Yes I have more but I was on a runaway loop < 9000 itterations, What was I talking about? OH YEAH! relavent stuff this community actually give a s**t about. Siege. I have not touched that in a while but a lot has been done already, however to avoid the insanity of the community breathing down my neck I have done my work behind a closed door carefull to disclose nothing or very little about whats actually going on. The good thing that comes from working in such secrecy is I can build SiegeXtreme without letting 3rd partys alter my vision of the finnished product as I'm chugging along like mollasis up a 45 degree angle. Just because it's been sometime since I made some noise here doesn't mean I'm dead! keep the headstone just scribble off the date. @Feralidragon I'm making every single thing in SiegeXtreme customizeable to a rediculous level! In the end all the controls will be in the hands of server owner / operator and I won't be hassled like I was in the good 'ol days. ...well that rant had little to do with the rest of this thread...hmm... thead..head....dead...BED!!!!! $**T!!! YES!!! Damn!! SOB I Got Work tomarrow >:0 I can't write an awesome wall of text that competes with @Feralidragon's
    I apprechiate you speaking your thoughts on everything @Feralidragon I'm not dead and I hope you stick around for a little longer not ALL of UT is Bad
    Take care, I'm out

    - nOs*Wildcard




























    SEGMENTATION FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!@

    Oh BTW SPAM VICTORY!

    Website: http://gauntletwarriors.com/

  3. #43
    Administrator |uK|Shiva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moko View Post
    SHIVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA COME BACKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!

    And I still don't have my fangs like you said I'd get! :P
    What do you mean come back? I never left.. just dont have time to play Siege (hate playing on public and pugs take too long)

    Hence i play ipug cos it is quick!.
    I'l start playing siege again soon..

  4. #44
    Rampage Feralidragon's Avatar
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    @Wildcard: Sorry, but my decision was made some time ago already. It doesn't have to do much with this topic in specific, but with a whole set of events and end points that have been happening.
    In short, the only things that were keeping me in UT are no longer there: I just hit the engine limits and I am mostly restrained by them alone, the player base shrank a lot and the the remaining ones, although still many, simply do not want to try new things (generally speaking).
    Adding to that the nice patient community of online players from 1+ years ago is no longer, now everything is either OP or too weak at the minimal sign of skill or lack of, and the respect for free development dropped immensely as if bugs were deadly sins, as if the devs own anything at all to players, so as of now a UT gaming community is no different from the rest of the gaming communities, when 1+ years ago the UT community was infinitely better and more supportive and that was mainly what kept me developing in UT specifically.

    I had tons of plans for UT (one of them involved Siege ironically), and I could still push the engine a bit further, however with things as they are, and after giving it a lot of thought for months even before the NW3 release, I decided that it was best if I created my own game in UDK instead in case my latest mod didn't get enough interest in servers, and exactly as predicted, it really didn't. At least with a new game I have better chances to get it played and have a genuine player base, with the bonus of being able to do whatever I feel like, hold full copyright and create a much better and flexible platform that otherwise wouldn't be possible with UT.
    It will probably take a while before I have something finished (probably years) and no one will hear from me until then most likely, but I will give it a try.
    I will just make 2 last releases this year for UT and move on to more serious stuff, there's nothing left of interest for me here, that's the unfortunate truth. I will still be around as a normal user in moddb and ut99.org probably and helping out people in coding questions and the like, so I won't disappear completely though, just new UT things won't come from me starting in the next year.

  5. #45
    Whicked Sick Moko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by |uK|Shiva View Post
    What do you mean come back? I never left.. just dont have time to play Siege (hate playing on public and pugs take too long)

    Hence i play ipug cos it is quick!.
    I'l start playing siege again soon..
    Well I haven't seen you in forever!
    Not in servers or anything, I don't go irc for mlsg anymore.

  6. #46
    Whicked Sick |uK|MiniWick's Avatar
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    love how Shiva and Moko are just txting while Wildcard and Feral are sending their love on the game.

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