ridiculous ban by ScReAm

**CTV** · 11-03-2015

This is all you have to say? Just lol! Really how old are you?

Ok come on upload the demo form the command match! Hey but upload the demo of the whole game! You can also add a screenshot where all can see how many grabs and caps I made!
Let all see how you did respawn laming many times in the main corner of the command map and then you can ban yourself! Because this is more lame then 2 back shoots in a whole game�
Let all see how I kill you from back two times in the whole game! And in both situations you entered our base while we had the flag. And stop lying: by saying I did backshoot the whole game!
Come on show it to us! Let�s go! You will blame yourself for sure!
I have no secrets I played correct! You are ridiculous and you call yourself admin! This is a shame for all real admins.
Come on upload it and blame yourself!

over -=CTV=-

**Chamberly** · 11-03-2015

CTV, what are you trying to achieve? You know about the rules on the server right?

**zrt** · 11-03-2015

Originally Posted by Chamberly

Originally Posted by Sheepy

The mods who ban people should have demos, not the players who get banned tbh

True but the thing is, if both mod and the player don't have any demo or proof, the ban can get removed.

agreed 120% @Chamberly @Sheepy.

I assume that most players do not record demos while playing, because they don't know how or they don't care or whatever reason...

Sadly, nowadays everybody MUST rec demos while playing because of new rules about backshoot/DM and their interpretation from some mods..
So, it looks like you can actually play 40hours without any issue and for a damn frag on the wrong dude, you'll get instantly warned/banned. -_-
At the same time I self have demos of dozen of players that always brak rules. Most are known players but , strangely ,they are able to lame (camp/DM/assrun/BS)..unmolested.. -As they were doing past years before new rules.. -

However, every time I see threads about someone's ban, I see everybody ask for demos like if it was a CB match (RIP)..
So, my question to admins is:

Why don't you force players to record demos of their games?

Or perhaps make server side auto-demo, even if i'm not sure about the over load/bandwidth usage/storage space and finally lag it could lead...

Just asking tho..

**Chamberly** · 11-03-2015

Originally Posted by zrt

new rules about backshoot/DM and their interpretation from some mods..

Honestly, the no backshooting/DM isn't new and it has been around for quite some time, but we should be posting the official rule soon which we've been discussion in the privately.

However, the interpretation of no backshooting/dm isn't very clear among most of us, and this is where the confusion kick in and I hope we're working a way around this.

I do think some of us do record demos, but the lazy kick in and don't wanna upload because of <insert some random reason>. I'm hoping we're going to find a way around this.

**CTV** · 11-03-2015

Originally Posted by Chamberly

CTV, what are you trying to achieve? You know about the rules on the server right?

1. I wan't that I get unbanned! Because bannig me was wrong!
2. I wan't to make public that one of your admins is out of control! I know such admins from other games, they can ruin a game or a server
3. I wan't you may think about whom you give admin rights. This behavior is not admin like. (Finding a reason to ban players he just don't like...)

Originally Posted by zrt

agreed 120% @Chamberly @Sheepy.

I assume that most players do not record demos while playing, because they don't know how or they don't care or whatever reason...

Sadly, nowadays everybody MUST rec demos while playing because of new rules about backshoot/DM and their interpretation from some mods..
So, it looks like you can actually play 40hours without any issue and for a damn frag on the wrong dude, you'll get instantly warned/banned. -_-
At the same time I self have demos of dozen of players that always brak rules. Most are known players but , strangely ,they are able to lame (camp/DM/assrun/BS)..unmolested.. -As they were doing past years before new rules.. -

However, every time I see threads about someone's ban, I see everybody ask for demos like if it was a CB match (RIP)..
So, my question to admins is:

Why don't you force players to record demos of their games?

Or perhaps make server side auto-demo, even if i'm not sure about the over load/bandwidth usage/storage space and finally lag it could lead...

Just asking tho..

I totally agree with you!
The best solution would be a mod plugin for detecting back shooting. Easiest way to do is: Count back shoots per time and only count it if the own team dose not have the flag.
If an ratio for back shooting is reached, kill the player immediately or kick the play or ban the player for 10 games some thing like this.

If you have this mod it is fair and you don't need an admin to ban players for the reason of back shooting...
With a mod like this It's not about interpretation of an admin or antipathy from admin to a player! the mod is the same for all
think about it!

-=CTV=-

**SAM** · 11-03-2015

@CTV serverside demo will turn into an administration nightmare...

We need demos from either of you @ScReaM @CTV

**CTV** · 11-03-2015

Originally Posted by SAM

@CTV serverside demo will turn into an administration nightmare...

We need demos from either of you @ScReaM @CTV

I agree with you. Server side demo is not an option! but the back shoot mod plugin is an option.

The back shoot rule has the biggest problem in interpretation by admins and it can easy be used to abuse. If you ensure that this rule can not be broken with a back shoot mod plugin you don't need admins to ban players because of this rule. And you don't need to accept banning player by admins because of this rule.
I have no demo for play ffa. I only demorec in clan wars... Until now I don't care about score or review my own play in ffa. I never thought that I ever need a demo to prove my innocence. That's the wrong way! the question of prove should be inverted.

-=CTV=-

**SAM** · 11-03-2015

A backshoot mod? That's like the most complicated mod I've ever heard of to make.

**CTV** · 11-03-2015

Originally Posted by SAM

A backshoot mod? That's like the most complicated mod I've ever heard of to make.

I am not common with the ut game engine and what options it provides but I am common with mathematics and programming. So my first Idea would be:

First we need the vector from player who get killed and from the killer. If have this vector we can calculate the angle and the distance.
Next we need the rotation direction of the killed player relative to the orthogonal center position of the killer.
If the relative angle is bigger than 180 degrees it is a back shoot.

If we have a calculation for detecting back shooting we just need a counting system. Only low distance should be counted. Then we need to calculate a back shoot per time rate.
If this rate is higher then a allowed value do some action with the killer. (Kill, Ban...)

It is not easy but it should be possible to implement

-=CTV=-

**zrt** · 11-03-2015

Originally Posted by SAM

A backshoot mod? That's like the most complicated mod I've ever heard of to make.

It's a waste , but enforce players to demorec is possible , right ?. -Even it looks stupid in some way lol-
Seriously, the best and easiest way would be : admin/mod that ban someone have to provide the demo of the game. -Does not mean the community do not trust admins/mods in general, but everybody make mistakes. With demo, It would stop discussions around bans with this obvious proof-

Originally Posted by Chamberly

Honestly, the no backshooting/DM isn't new and it has been around for quite some time

Nothing wrong with rules, I think most of us did not wait for those rules to play CTF

I self play CTF since over a decade and have (i believe) almost always played flags and cover, maybe few time hardly defended and/or tried to 'map control' but anyway tried to be fair and help my team in any case.

Just an example, Tammy's rules. They were basic , but it worked fine , do not hardly DM/BS, you can defend but do not camp behind the Rock. All was said. And it was a lot of fun on these servers for those who remember... -at least in my opinion-
Same on RS, bloodedge's, UtC/UTW, SC*... for those who played SACTF <3

What I mean is after years of inactivity, I expected last UT99 players would be fair in 2015 ans just enjoy to have fun without to need hard rules to make them play fair... was I wrong ?! :/

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