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  1. #21
    Administrator SAM's Avatar
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    There's obviously issues with the version. No major server side changes. BT igus combo all on the same box and no complaints.

    Time to troubleshoot further. I would suggest first step revert to zp and disable LC. If that doesn't work rollback to RC21 which seem to be the last stable version. There is nothing wrong with server otherwise we would have reports on combo BT and us ig.

    Tomorrow after gym about 8pm gmt we will revert to zp. @Higor would appreciate if you could let me know the values and whether it's possible to use zp still. I have been a bit out of touch lately.

  2. #22
    Whicked Sick terminator's Avatar
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    Server was always slowing down after we played long time on it. Really out of idea what could be causing it.
    Used to think that it could be due to increasing numbers of fortifications but even when u kill a big part of it , the lag persists.

    Personally i've faced some zp sniper issues when it didn't register my shots. Also don't like the fact that minigun is overpowered.
    Other than that it's pretty ok.

    About losing traffic... i am really not tracking it but i don't remember that server was full during morning (european time).
    Used to be few players.. as it was today when i joined but never full.

  3. #23
    Whicked Sick Higor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAM View Post
    No major server side changes
    Yet the entire NexGen was changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by SAM View Post
    There is nothing wrong with server otherwise we would have reports on combo BT and us ig.
    12 slots, less in-and-out player traffic, 15 minute games max.
    Moot point here SAM.

    Quote Originally Posted by SAM View Post
    There's obviously issues with the version.
    I will create a .PATCH file to diff both 0010 and 0011, and you'll see if those changes really have the potential to cause such issues.

    I'm really getting tired of this.

  4. #24
    Whicked Sick Higor's Avatar
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    The hell with it, have fun pinpointing this.
    I'm out.

  5. #25
    Administrator SAM's Avatar
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    I don't understand the issue with rollback ~ to see whether it's the version or not. People have been complaining before the nexgen upgrade. But I'd help to put your mind at ease can also rollback that too.

  6. #26
    Moderator ][X][~FLuKE~][X]['s Avatar
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    You need a thicker skin if you are going to develop a mod that is popular like this Higor and your ignorance towards peoples opinions will come back and bite you in the ass if you dont sit up and listen, I had my fair share of rage attacks on the RX releases over the years, you need to learn to read them less personal but still take in the feedback.

    I would love to say you are doing an awesome job Higor but weighing up the pro's and cons of siege progression and I have to say there has been way more negative than positive, its fact Higor, not an insult.

    also please stop with the patch after patch after patch man, fix the issue so it is hardcoded instead, I am getting sick of downloading constant patching and new releases and I am sure others will agree, if I am going to download over and over at least give something visible that we can see, each version seems to either be nothing noticeable change wise or something has been added/removed that immediately pisses a lot of players off.

    concentrate less on doing things the people really wont like and update the look of siege builds first, give the people something they can see at least, IMO you are working on the totally wrong thing to start off, visual first which keeps the players occupied while you work on functions etc.

    I am always brutally honest Higor and I dont kiss ass in case I offend a developer who then childishly rage quits the development of that mod, online and Real Life so dont take this as a rage or attack on anything you have done in a personal way, I have had more than my fair share of posts like this when I was just starting out on RX, I am simply pointing out facts that need to be addressed before you lose the support that you have right now.

    Public Server traffic is dropping more (especially euro players through the day), this needs to be reverted to a good version before more people leave, roll back to a decent working version.

  7. #27
    Rampage Feralidragon's Avatar
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    As a professional programmer in a fast growing project, I must point out that a code update and server problems do not correlate with each other tons and tons of times.
    It happens quite frequently me putting stuff into production, from small things to fundamental structure changes, and then the servers starting to have problems, and once we check if it's the new code or not, many many times it's a coincidence and the servers simply started to have more load or something else completely unrelated caused said problems.

    My boss requested me to rollback my code in some occasions, but when I saw that there was absolutely no possible correlation between the changes, I explained it to him and it turned out I was right. In the past 2 months, there was only 1 single time where my code did cause problems, and I rolled back immediately because I saw that the changes I did could indeed cause a little bit of extra load, it just happened to cause a lot more load than I first expected.

    Having that said, you guys should look at things objectively and not with circumstantial assumptions, specially considering that the server is running plenty of other unstable mods, and updates of such mods were also been installed afaik.
    I think Higor should indeed show a diff between the version which worked properly and the current one, and let us the rest of developers see and check if there's something that could indeed influence any of the problems of the server. Any developer that knows the engine to some extent will be able to tell if such changes have any potential to cause problems.

    Hardcoding something goes completely against proper coding practices, and if Higor started to do that you would end up with a lot more problems and what developers call: spaghetti code and "magic statements/numbers", causing the code to be actually a lot more unstable.
    Furthermore patches exist with the intent to actually try to fix the problems. In many of nowadays games players complain instead on the lack of such patches as they have to deal with glitches for months. Excessive patching however also detract players from actually playing since they have to download everything again, and once the patch is too frequent the developer should think in restructuring the whole thing in a way that patches are as friendly as possible (division by modules for example, common APIs, etc). In UT this kind of restructuring is rather hard due to the fact that you have to rename the packages to avoid version mismatches in the future, but if properly thought out and developed, it's possible.
    But then again, if these patches happen is a good sign things are getting looked into and developed, and in contrast with not having them at all, I think having them is preferable.

    Visuals before functionality is what leads great games to a premature death. Many many games lack visual upgrades but receive fixes constantly and new functionality, and they are still pretty much alive, and some of them are almost as old as UT itself. Furthermore, Siege players complain about every single thing that changes, visuals and eye candy included.
    At the first sign of lag, even if the change is a red texture being just a bit more red, people jump in and start to blame it out of sheer ignorance how this stuff really works, and even when explained, many of them still keep this almost religious belief that they're right and the developer is wrong.

    All this to say that you should give the benefit of the doubt, and be tolerant, something I never saw coming from you guys in this whole year.

    Perhaps a "staging" server would be best to test the versions first before they go to public though, something like a public dev-test server where everyone is able to join in, specially beta-testers, that way some problems may be detected sooner, however keep in mind that other times they just happen in production, given that as everything else in life, shit just happens, there's no way around it.
    However, I guess as of now it may be to late to think in alternatives. I warned you guys before about this to eventually happen, you didn't listen.
    Last edited by Feralidragon; 10-21-2013 at 05:56 AM.

  8. #28
    Moderator TimTim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feralidragon View Post
    I must point out that a code update and server problems do not correlate with each other tons and tons of times.
    It happens quite frequently me putting stuff into production, from small things to fundamental structure changes, and then the servers starting to have problems, and once we check if it's the new code or not, many many times it's a coincidence and the servers simply started to have more load or something else completely unrelated caused said problems.

    My boss requested me to rollback my code in some occasions, but when I saw that there was absolutely no possible correlation between the changes, I explained it to him and it turned out I was right.
    Yeah, this happens way too often. People are way too quick to blame developers/code for almost every little issue. Obviously, it does happen with any project under active development, but not as much as people would like to think. I guess it is easiest for people on the outside to point at developers since the developers are the only real tangible part of the stack visible at the surface. It's also incredibly easy for people to make demands and complain and say, "Just fix it!" when they have no idea how difficult some things can be. Some issues can be clearly attributed to code and development, but there are many other factors usually beyond our control that can cause problems.
    Last edited by TimTim; 10-21-2013 at 09:32 AM.

  9. #29
    Rampage Feralidragon's Avatar
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    And to prove further what I and TimTim just said, coincidentally I got this just in:
    me - <sends email to sys admin> frontend X is timing out;
    <receives email from sys admin asking if I put anything into production>
    me - Yes I did, a major one, however none of the functionalities which frontend X holds were even touched
    <sys admin checks>
    admin - oh yeah, backend Y was dead for some reason, just got it back up, test to confirm
    me - yep, all working again and fast as it should


    This sort of thing happens 2 to 3 times a week (I mean, some server in the many we have having some problem, and getting asked if I put anything into production).
    It's kinda standard to ask it of course, but the cases where the code is the culprit is very rare, at least in my case (but I guess it's the same for most as well).
    Last edited by Feralidragon; 10-21-2013 at 11:41 AM.

  10. #30
    Moderator ][X][~FLuKE~][X]['s Avatar
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    the main point of developing is so there is changes made that the user themselves can see if it is such a well known mod like this, once you captivate that mindset then "under the hood" so to speak kind of dev can be done without people being on your back.

    my point isn't blaming the mod for the crashing or server instability, hell I have had loads of those kind of blames over the years so IMO it is normal to get that, its the sheer volume of changes and files added with little or no examples of what has been changed for the player, too many changes, too many upgrades in such a small amount of time and majority votes etc. are being ignored.

    on the dev side, I can surely understand why developers do not bother with UT99 any more, a lot of the players left are brutal and love to take without giving, That's my reason for me no longer developing the RocketX mod, even more so now after VM have mutilated the RocketX.

    Developers need to be humble, you have a skill, dont be arrogant with it.

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