Aliasing

[|uK|B|aZe//.]

pretty much was gonna echo what convict said its dumb to make your own kind of zp during a middle of a season and expect everyone to be hunky dory about it when it ran like total dogshit.

lets face facts for a minute, zp ran shittons better and the fact higor did the above was a kick in the balls to himself really, add to that he wouldnt listen to what everyone had to say as well as totally disregarding polls, do you really blame everyone for complaining, cause I dont and neither does anyone else

[Feralidragon]

2 things (which I already have said but everyone just keeps on complaining without even thinking much about it):
- give Higor a public staging server;
- let Sam (and/or any trusted enough privileged admin) to ultimately decide which version and settings are in the production server (PUG and public server).

Higor is treated like a developer, and the admins as sys-admins, separate things properly.
If something happens, it's the job of a sys-admin to rollback to whatever version that worked, and from there is up to both the sys-admin in conjunction with the developer to try to replicate the problem and fix it in the staging server, ultimately leading to the developer alone to fix it if the problem it's on his side, or the sys-admin if it's on his.

The staging server needs testers, and there's where the whole clan + interested parties enter in the development cycle.
If the testers are ok with the new version, and also the sys-admin, then it's a direct passage to production, and problems will certainly be kept at minimum.

So instead of blaming all on Higor, look at yourselves first. Look in the mirror and ask "what can you do to avoid this". Higor's methods on putting things on production are obviously flawed and he may actually put things too soon and in a rather irresponsible matter, I've noticed that, but the intentions are certainly good, however there are fallacies which are not only his fault, but everyone's fault to not help to respond better to the problem at hand, and the problem is lack of a proper internal organized working process.

As I said before, thousands of gameplay rules in the server, but apparently none on the development cycle, when it should be pretty much the very opposite.
If you start doing things wrong, they will always lead to bad results no matter how good a developer or a sys-admin is, you need a fully structured proper working process, as clearly the one you had so far is not working with anyone.


But hey, keep on rambling and blame all on Higor until the end of time if you guys think that's going to fix your issues. I had said this tons of times, but no one seems to really care about the issue and instead is just ranting since it's easy to blame it all in a single person.

[|uK|B|aZe//.]

im sorry I dont agree a lot of people have tested many a versions on the pug server when higor has asked, yes its not just his own fault but he added a lot to the problems instead of doing the simple solution and just rolling back until finding the problems with a say bad version. yes people here complain about the littlest of things but changing the damage of weapons as well as how they register is a MAJOR gaming dynamic change thats bound to have HUGE impacts on peoples attitudes if you dont get it right or DONT put it right after admitting its SHIT

I actually did what you are saying xxx and that was during a gu season and guess what happened sw/moskva/convict/lotr all decided to blame the shitstorm of weapons on me because all I simply did was ROLLBACK to a version that had zp with working weapons

But I guess its still all our own faults and we should all DIAF

[Feralidragon]

What you just said proves my point.

First, define "a lot of people": how many (10, 20, 30)? Was it restricted to those people? Did they actively provide useful feedback?
A staging/beta server should be opened to everyone, just like the public server, and labelled as such, and in this forum there should be even a section or a topic dedicated solely to it and feedback on the version. Everyone that is ranting now, should help in the beta-testing and provide feedback whenever possible.

So maybe you rolled back to a working version just like an admin should do (great!), but what happened after that is proof that there isn't a well defined working procedure on development -> testing -> deployment.
PUG shouldn't be used as a staging server, nor the public server, a staging server is built to be "broken" whenever needed, where the developer has full freedom to mess around and debug stuff.
The staging server is the place where the broken stuff should be hanging around until they are proper for deployment in a PUG or public environment (production).

If you rollback and other guys (semi-admins? moderators?) complain of such thing, then that means they don't know the process, thus there's no process to begin with, and there's where you start in the wrong foot.
Define a process, where you separate clearly what's developer-end and admin-end, who takes decisions on what and how every step of the process is handled and by who.
How I see it is: there are admins (Sam and you?) and there are developers (Higor) and there are testers (anyone), the developer develops and the admin administrates and the testers test.
Quite simple and obvious, I know, but that's not what I see happening here, and thus everything goes to shit once of the parts doesn't have a well defined route nor doesn't communicate things with each others and things start to get mixed up.

So, in the end, get a grip.
The developer shouldn't decide when to update, that's the admin's call, period.
The admin shouldn't decide what internal changes are needed to improve something or add to its security, that's the developer's call since he's the one who knows the code and inner workings of it.
New things/features are something the admin(s) and the developer(s) should decide together to advance with or not, preferentially based on the feedback of the final users as well (players) although not required (this isn't a democracy, even if Sam tries to make it like one). And again, the developer should always have the freedom to do experiments on the staging server where it can be stopped at or advance to the public server.

Lag compensation is *not* a feature if you had ZP in the first place, it's actually an attempt to give the same level of gameplay, while making it absolutely client-exploit-free, it's a "ZP security patch" if you will. It obviously never works ever as well as ZP, due to the inherent limitations of the system itself (heavy usage of prediction), but adds a tremendous amount of security uncomparable to whichever ZP would ever come up with.
Did you ever think that perhaps there might be some botting by simply triggering the ZP to hit a player you're not even aiming at? I will give you a minute to think about that, along with the fact that lag compensation fixes that up completely.

Damage and balance changes belong in the category of "decision between admin and developer", but the admin always has more weight (since in this case he owns all the services), so if those changes pass to production, then there was consent from the admin for those changes, so it's unfair to blame the developer alone. By extent, if it has been tested, then the testers are to blame as well, if not, then the whole working procedure is at fault, which by extent... I guess you know where I am going with this.

If the developer puts hidden things that he neglects to mention to the admin, then the developer is at fault and should be either be kicked from the development or correct his ways into informing the admin about such things (for full consensus and good communication), either those things are beneficial or not.

Just like in an engine, if even one of the parts fail, the car won't ever move on its own that well or at all.

[SAM]

Does it matter who's fault it was. What does it ever solve pointing fingers? Bottom line is, it was everyone's fault.

Higor has stopped development so this discussion doesn't need to really proceed any further. We can now just wait for Siege to finally stagnate.

[shafaqs2]

Someone was using my nickname as well, BBC

[Moskva]

Have no intention on fighting on something that isnt really going somewhere

However Blaze, the ONLY reason why the rollback was rather questionnable was because it happened in the MIDDLE of a match, if zp worked or not, it was the same for both teams, and having to change binds for that version and testing prior to map 2 caused a huge delay to start the map.

( Click to show/hide )

Now the following is totally a personal appreciation that you might like or not but this is what I think,

I like the fact Higor worked on siege and I thank him for his efforts of putting countless hours into it

BUT, going your own way with siege and adding some stuff that, I'm not sure it was needed (like the GrenadeLauncher), kinda made siege something different.

yeah different, not good or bad, because that was judged by the community

if my opinion is important or not? probably not, but you want feedback so there you have it