Various players abusing McSwartlzy roof glitch

**][X][~FLuKE~][X][** · 10-14-2015

Originally Posted by Scourge

You do occasionally get a lone player who single-handedly makes the difference between victory and defeat. And yes, sometimes you really do have a shitty team - Teams that build leeches, teams that hog thousands of RU for no reason, teams that never make even the most basic effort to communicate or coordinate. The way you write about Siege, it's like you've never been frustrated by any of this. I hope you'll forgive any skepticism on my part.

I disagree about JUST a lone player, you can have a very adept player on offense but as Higor just pointed out, you can't win any game unless the rest of your team is defending or supporting your attacks by distracting in mid for example.

The reason I butt heads with most of the players I consider ego charged is more than likely due to my age "queue the old man taunts", So I see the game in a different way, one example is the spam key binds whing only a fairly young player would think is "Cool", where I see them as very childish, your mind will change just as mine has and you will get agitated by the younger players around you.

This is why when you take shots like yesterday in Simplex, they do not hit any nerves because it is like arguing with a teenager, you might sting someone your age but you won't sting someone my age. If I just allowed you to remove builds someone else could have seen it and thought "mod is here and he said nothing" then they remove, then another etc. you get the point. I do completely agree that it can get you pissed off at times just like I have been, but I yell, I don't go and decide to take over and remove all their builds, it isn't my call.

The type of things the will get me pissed are people building nukes before SS or similar events, players who literally are off with the fairies doing their own thing and disrupt everything, but I do not have a ego fuelled method of thinking and won't ever rage over things like that. 90% of the time I rage is because I joined the server in a foul mood which you might understand if you knew what I go through.

if shit isn't yours, leave it alone and live with it or ask the original builder to remove it, only if the build itself is obstructing is it ok to then remove them, but always ask first as that will cover your ass if you get reported for it. No matter what people build or where, there will always be leech areas so using that excuse is irrelevant.

I am not saying there are good players out there scourge, but even the self proclaimed top players fail in games, like you mostly did in simplex last night during the 3 1/2 hour game. I failed worse than you in that game but I still enjoyed it.

You call me self righteous which is an incorrect observation, I am well educated and I will stick to whatever rules I have agreed to uphold, If you start getting in my face with insults I will always respond to them in the same manner, insults don't sting me from anyone who is playing a game.

Don't take it personal as so many of you do.

**Scourge** · 10-14-2015

Originally Posted by ][X][~FLuKE~][X][_{HoF}

I disagree about JUST a lone player, you can have a very adept player on offense but as Higor just pointed out, you can't win any game unless the rest of your team is defending or supporting your attacks by distracting in mid for example.

I should have given "lone player" better thought. My point is that teams have their mooks and their heroes (villains?); the mooks are the people you can replace with practically anyone and the outcome of the game will be the same, or that will likely even be better for their team when you replace them with the next person. Heroes (like Vatiko and Aizen in last night's game) absolutely carry the mooks; sure, the heroes can't win on their own, but that doesn't mean the mooks are anywhere as skilled as the heroes, or that they're even making a net positive contribution to the team other than simply being a meat shield.

(That's not to downplay critical support that many players offer. Such people should be far more visible in the scores, to be honest - being a hardcore ape nuker and leecher only isn't what Siege is all about.)

If I just allowed you to remove builds someone else could have seen it and thought "mod is here and he said nothing" then they remove, then another etc. you get the point. I do completely agree that it can get you pissed off at times just like I have been, but I yell, I don't go and decide to take over and remove all their builds, it isn't my call.

I have a problem with this policy mainly because it doesn't apply in reverse. If we accept for the sake of argument that a new player thinks it's okay to remove because I do, then does it not make sense for them to think that building poorly or just anywhere is okay because they see other players doing it? If removal is not okay, then at least some way of ensuring people are exposed to some sort of building guidelines or etiquette prior to actually being able to do it should be par the course. It's not fair to remove someone's stuff without asking (within reason), but it's not exactly fair to force the rest of one's team to bear the consequences of one's uninformed building, either. See last night's "door containers" for an excellent example of this.

if shit isn't yours, leave it alone and live with it or ask the original builder to remove it, only if the build itself is obstructing is it ok to then remove them, but always ask first as that will cover your ass if you get reported for it. No matter what people build or where, there will always be leech areas so using that excuse is irrelevant.

True, anything is a leech if left undefended. The question is to what extent this is acceptable and why. A pile of containers in the open isn't considered acceptable, yet doorway containers that make any nuke at all profitable are fine? Same idea, different extent, different implementation. You say that this is arrogance (or at least a bad precedent) on the part of players like me to call, yet for others, building in ways that are rarely sustainable - and on top of that, trash-talking about how "good" their tactics are - is A-OK? I'll readily agree with you that my shit stinks, but the rest shouldn't be ignored.

Concerning your remark about "don't take it personally" when your posts in threads like these have typically been about others' behavior and general character on these servers: The way I play isn't simply about OH LOOK HOW GOOD SCOURGE CAN MESS UP YOUR CORE/BASE, as fun as that is, nor is it to say that I don't mess up - I do, often, and extraordinarily so.

I was happy as a clam yesterday when Janssen said "tell me when you're nuking" and when Paul and Serpent set up one another's nukes. I'm more than happy to set up offense for other players, or to coordinate with other players, or build out defenses for the team. But good team play is often a lucky luxury in public, as is having two of the best fraggers in the server on your team. There is stacking, there is stupid and frustrating and spammy behavior, and there is also the most visible and aggressive players screwing up. I can see all of that, not just my own mistakes - can you?

Originally Posted by Higor

You won't see me attacking otherwise or so I thought, until that Bathvember game where Fleecey joined half an hour in.

What makes these games frustrating is how protracted they are in spite of the inevitable loss. Stuff like this should snowball far more quickly than it did; this sort of thing is the reason you'll see entire teams ragequitting in Niven.

**][X][~FLuKE~][X][** · 10-14-2015

Holy shit you have a super deep love and sense of reality failure with UT99.

Its a game Scourge, where all come to play and relax, You seem to have lost a grip on the fact it is a game in that huge response (I was even polite enough to read it all instead of the "can't be bothered to read all that crap" kind of response....yw). everyone is equal in the game to me so if you do something that disrupts that balance then expect repercussions. I try to keep the game neutral, leet or noobie makes no difference to me with how I deal with situations.

If there is a clear leech then use SAY and ask them to remove it, not TeamSay, do that when I am on the other team and I can't see it, Then I get the idea you have asked which will then change the reaction if it is a very bad builds, e.g. blocking a tele, building where you wouldn't see a build placed, like containers next to core etc., then I will simply ask that you take a SS and then you can remove it, that way if a players comes on the forum yelling you removed their builds there will be a SS to show why. There is a right way and a wrong way to approach all situations what you did was the wrong way, hence the warning.

I deal with players with your kind of view almost daily, I say the same to them all, follow the server guidelines and you wont hear a thing from me, do something you know I will react to is simply asking for it. your word alone is not enough to justify you doing what you want.

**Janssen** · 10-14-2015

I thought it was common knowledge that players do carry teams. You have top-tier players that carry, 2nd-tier players like me that are more effective when there are carriers, and 3rd-tier noobs. Kermit is a good example of 2nd tier, with carriers kermit can end up a top nuker. But without carriers, won't change the game flow. Same with me in many ways (depending how good i play that day) but usually i won't change the flow.

Oh and btw, in the game you're talking about, jaymatic was carrying. I know, i was almost at red core - like, alone - and my nuke got hit by a luck shot. Jaymatic again. And most nukes were stopped by jaymatic. Then i'm stuck RU-ing from 0.

**Scourge** · 10-14-2015

@][X][~FLuKE~][X][_{HoF}

Look, we've both practically written books on this stupid thread. I think you read way too much into other people's character - not just mine, but several others' - and enforce rules in a way I don't agree is constructive - based on your understanding of things, which is why I attempted to explain how I see them. But I'll drop it since neither of us will agree with the other, and it's irrelevant to the topic at hand, which is bug abuse and sticking to those rules.

Bottom line is, I'm aware of the consequences. At the end of the day I try to do what I think will work best for the team. If that gets me banned for disregarding the rules, then so be it - I was warned.

Originally Posted by Janssen

I thought it was common knowledge that players do carry teams. You have top-tier players that carry, 2nd-tier players like me that are more effective when there are carriers, and 3rd-tier noobs. Kermit is a good example of 2nd tier, with carriers kermit can end up a top nuker. But without carriers, won't change the game flow. Same with me in many ways (depending how good i play that day) but usually i won't change the flow.

Oh and btw, in the game you're talking about, jaymatic was carrying. I know, i was almost at red core - like, alone - and my nuke got hit by a luck shot. Jaymatic again. And most nukes were stopped by jaymatic. Then i'm stuck RU-ing from 0.

You played very well on one BlackRiver game. I talked smack, but at the end of the day you played better than I did. Don't underestimate yourself :P

**Shotman** · 10-14-2015

Jeez i feel some people need a break from Siege or just UT99 in general for a couple of days

**Janssen** · 10-14-2015

<< I think you read way too much into other people's character - not just mine, but several others' >>

I don't think you (scourge) is especially narcissistic and it's where things really jump into another category, when someone is narcissistic with an exalted sense of self-importance and often the associated facies, often eyes bulging out. That kind of player is not hard to detect really, by the way they talk.

Then there's the angry player that throws fits and removes builds and scourge doesn't fall into that category either.

There's another type of anger, competitive anger, and that's what i see. Scourge is an AMERICAN competitive player and we all know the pro-american mentality. And they drive into your head that you must compete, compete, compete...

I used to be that kind, but i played monsterhunt for years and it's a cure.

So i'm anti-capitalist and anti-american. But that's me.

**][X][~FLuKE~][X][** · 10-15-2015

Originally Posted by Janssen

I don't think you (scourge) is especially narcissistic and it's where things really jump into another category, when someone is narcissistic with an exalted sense of self-importance and often the associated facies, often eyes bulging out. That kind of player is not hard to detect really, by the way they talk.

Then there's the angry player that throws fits and removes builds and scourge doesn't fall into that category either.

There's another type of anger, competitive anger, and that's what i see. Scourge is an AMERICAN competitive player and we all know the pro-american mentality. And they drive into your head that you must compete, compete, compete...

@Scourge ^^^This is exactly how I see you apart from the (American jabs), you are shrouded by "you know what is best for the team because you NEED to win and will disagree with anything you are told is wrong and make a huge issue over it"

The reason this has flared up like it has Scourge is simply from you talking smack after I said to you "don't remove other players builds", this was done in the public eye, not via nexgen and not via warning message. You took it like I jumped through your PC and shoved a hot poker up your ass.

To some I appear strict like yourself for example, but you need to realise the variables I process, not you, not 3 or 4, not one team but the entire server and the type of players involved...everyone, it is not the same every game scourge. In the particular game you removed I knew there were some relatively new players and they were on your team, that is why you were told not to do it. It is a judgement call in a particular situation.

What was tough about replying what the issue was instead of puffing out your chest and trying to lecture me on game skills and how I am self righteous?

I don't care if you have been playing siege 8 years or 8 days or if it is the first time you have played siege, I treat everyone the same, those who are pretty adept at the game feel themselves as a higher status and show horror when they are told not to do something or receive a warning.

If you get a warning from me then you better just suck it up because I won't bend on it and nothing you say will change it, accept it....move on.

This does still fit with the topic because you have proven what happens when someone is told not to do something, the easiest solution for the shooting through the glass is to not do it, bannable offence exploiting a glitch.... topic closed. It really is that simple to solve and end this debate.

Originally Posted by Janssen

I thought it was common knowledge that players do carry teams. You have top-tier players that carry, 2nd-tier players like me that are more effective when there are carriers, and 3rd-tier noobs. Kermit is a good example of 2nd tier, with carriers kermit can end up a top nuker. But without carriers, won't change the game flow. Same with me in many ways (depending how good i play that day) but usually i won't change the flow.

Oh and btw, in the game you're talking about, jaymatic was carrying. I know, i was almost at red core - like, alone - and my nuke got hit by a luck shot. Jaymatic again. And most nukes were stopped by jaymatic. Then i'm stuck RU-ing from 0.

Not necessarily carry, just those having a good game to deliver effective attacks on the enemy team, it can be anyone who has got used to siege, not just highly skilled. Some days I can be brutal with nuking, other times I can fail throughout a whole match.

Attackers
Mid range (can't decide what to do)
bottom/defenders (if I fail more often than not then it is likely I will be low on the scoreboard but doesn't mean I have not supported or carried out successful attacks)

Every game is different, I could appear at the top of the scoreboard every game by repairing the core every time it takes damage.

**Scourge** · 10-16-2015

Originally Posted by ][X][~FLuKE~][X][_{HoF}

What was tough about replying what the issue was instead of puffing out your chest and trying to lecture me on game skills and how I am self righteous?

Because after said warning, you identified me as one of those people you ranted about in one of your earlier comments on here. It had very little to do with the warning itself. I felt misunderstood and like I was being judged from a position of ignorance. In any case, I apologize for reacting that way publicly.

**][X][~FLuKE~][X][** · 10-16-2015

Originally Posted by Scourge

Because after said warning, you identified me as one of those people you ranted about in one of your earlier comments on here. It had very little to do with the warning itself. I felt misunderstood and like I was being judged from a position of ignorance. In any case, I apologize for reacting that way publicly.

You were identified BECAUSE of your reaction, same shit different player name. I rant because there is no other way to release being stressed by adept players who can't take being told they are not to do something. asking doesn't work, warning doesn't work....I know from the point of saying it I will get flak. Please don't feel singled out by me, it is a small group who all act the same after a big string of games being at the top.

Either way, I hope this has cleared the air Scourge, I certainly have no ill feelings towards you.

as for the topic, if I see anyone shoot through the glass you will be kicked for that match after a warning, I am the one who gets yelled at for "Not doing my job" when that raping begins.

Some players just need a bit of humble pie with a side order of acceptance.
Turning on me will do you no favours at all, it will do nothing but make it worse.

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