RC block

**Scourge** · 10-28-2015

Originally Posted by ][X][~FLuKE~][X][

...

@IronMaiden @Mizex

So look, I was playing this game of Butchered yesterday against a slightly disadvantaged team. Neither team had any particularly strong fraggers. It quickly turned into a very offensive match, with both teams attempting to spam explosives on the other's core. Both cores had the ever-loving crap beaten out of them, in the low 30's by the time the supers were up. It was a constant scramble and fun as hell, evolving quickly from all the RU pouring in and helping to grow the base from the explosives and raising the stakes by bringing the core well out of the comfort zone.

I can't speak for everyone else in that match, but for me, those "cheap" pre-SS explosives didn't make the match shitty, they made it faster-paced and actually fun.

I'll say it 'til I'm blue in the face: A person getting into critical parts of the base without being seen is never luck, except when there is a stack. A person being able to get into the base and repeatedly spam explosives to the point of being fatal is DEFINITELY not luck, unless it is a stack.

If this is really about the "little guy's" map passing too quickly, try this first:

- Fix the balancer
- Engage kickidlers at the start of EVERY game
- Make sure to always secure and never abandon the base

And see how things turn out.

**][X][~FLuKE~][X][** · 10-28-2015

I am never going to agree with anyone here on this subject, your example is poor and is "luck" that both teams could RC the cores, either way, that made the game balanced and isn't the issue. It is when the game is one sided and RC's are used to kill a core at the start of the match before it gets going by a single person. Getting in is luck, back to clarion..... 4 enemy players all appear on the left which distracts them from the core for a few seconds, another enemy player does not know his team are on the other side and distracting, he then runs into the core and sets off RC's, This is luck, he got in due to lucky timing. I know you and most people want to believe it is all skill and if it were, then you would never fail at nuking or defending or simple attacking

I believe a massive amount in this game is luck, where other players are in relation to a move you attempt, if the other team are on form with those that have a decent shot, you simply cannot use skill to know all of those variables, skill is learning how to do your best, skill isn't overcoming anybody else as skill cannot predict what will actually happen, if you nuke and die hitting a mine means you were unlucky. This is my thought process with this game, based from my own playing ability, some days I may be on the ball and not get anything wrong, other days I fail badly, its about how lucky I get combined with skill. Every single game that exist be it computer related or physical has luck involved as well as skill.

- Fix the balancer
- Engage kickidlers at the start of EVERY game
- Make sure to always secure and never abandon the base

so instead of limiting just one thing that wont really have any impact on the game as most of the time RC's are not spawned on a core is such a huge problem, Your comeback is to suggest 3 different things?, some players don't read the forum so can't have a voice and cannot read what you have to "Do at the start of every game", My firm belief is players shouldn't have change to suit the game type if there is an inherent problem where one destroys it. The team balance doesn't matter, there will always be one who will glory hunt with the "Fuck everyone else" attitude.

Everyone so far has danced around my questions of

1. Why is a delaying RC cannons for 10 or so minutes such a massive problem? I have never seen so many act so completely over the top over a simple suggestion, its like I have announced the change is actually happening!

2. What is the actual gratification of a cheap win?, the best I have seen as a celebration if any is a simple sarcastic seeming "lel"

This is matter of opinion which has become massively one sided, it is a suggestion from how I see the games played with low to mid skilled players from a spectator perspective. That makes me deserve to be hated on in such a strong manner?

You win, case closed.

Everyone else who isn't a seasoned player has to put up with it or GTFO and cry somewhere else.....got it.

**|uK|Rays** · 10-28-2015

I think it just boils down to siege having the same patterns regardless of the situation. You can't fault players for using the best possible way to damage the core, RCs work their best when there aren't super pros built in the enemy base ie first 10 mins of the game. That being said, I agree RCs do a lot of damage for minimal effort, especially considering the binds that people use now, but you're too focused on these supposed elitist attitudes and motives behind using RCs early in the game. I'm at work so I won't go into detail, but for anyone who's been playing a respectable amount of time, the patterns in siege are very noticeable and easy to follow.

**Skarn** · 10-28-2015

If you're good at defending and watch everything what happens in your base, RC's on core won't really happen because the enemy won't reach your core in the first place, and even if they do, they're probably 10 hp and some ape is going to minigun him down in a second or two, with the RC being ripper headshotted and easily killed. But ofcourse when you're in a team filled with people who don't really pay attention, some things go unnoticed, like someone taking down a sp in bathrooms tunnel. In that case I'd like to put a motion alarm right in the sc above tunnel so I can quickly respond. Fluke, I suggest you stop wasting your energy on this RC restriction, because it ain't gonna happen, and if it happens, there'd be much more complaining than there is now (which is bassicly only you).

Offtopic: Why were motion alarms removed? Kinda miss them.

**|uK|fleecey** · 10-28-2015

Originally Posted by NECRIS

If you're good at defending and watch everything what happens in your base, RC's on core won't really happen because the enemy won't reach your core in the first place, and even if they do, they're probably 10 hp and some ape is going to minigun him down in a second or two, with the RC being ripper headshotted and easily killed. But ofcourse when you're in a team filled with people who don't really pay attention, some things go unnoticed, like someone taking down a sp in bathrooms tunnel. In that case I'd like to put a motion alarm right in the sc above tunnel so I can quickly respond. Fluke, I suggest you stop wasting your energy on this RC restriction, because it ain't gonna happen, and if it happens, there'd be much more complaining than there is now (which is bassicly only you).

Offtopic: Why were motion alarms removed? Kinda miss them.

When they decided to remove the nuke siren, they decided to remove motion alarm too, I miss it as well

**Higor** · 10-28-2015

Motion Alarms were cancerous in maps like Bluevember.
If this build is ever coming back in it's old form, then the alert shouldn't be global but instead ambient sound so that only nearby players respond to it.
Unless... the motion alarm sticks to the wall like a door jammer and instead detects players passing through a cone (starting from the alarm itself), then global would be fine there.

**|uK|kenneth** · 10-28-2015

well if motion alarm comes back it should be easier to kill then it was since it can warn people.
second nuke siren was good and would still be good in maps like bathrooms i mean how many times do you fail nuking with trans belt boots etc? you barely fail at it unless there are noobs camping the fuck out of it and wait for people to nuke. but when it comes to maps like bluevember i think it should be disabled or smt.

**IronMaiden** · 10-28-2015

Originally Posted by Scourge

@IronMaiden @Mizex

So look, I was playing this game of Butchered yesterday against a slightly disadvantaged team. Neither team had any particularly strong fraggers. It quickly turned into a very offensive match, with both teams attempting to spam explosives on the other's core. Both cores had the ever-loving crap beaten out of them, in the low 30's by the time the supers were up. It was a constant scramble and fun as hell, evolving quickly from all the RU pouring in and helping to grow the base from the explosives and raising the stakes by bringing the core well out of the comfort zone.

I can't speak for everyone else in that match, but for me, those "cheap" pre-SS explosives didn't make the match shitty, they made it faster-paced and actually fun.

I'll say it 'til I'm blue in the face: A person getting into critical parts of the base without being seen is never luck, except when there is a stack. A person being able to get into the base and repeatedly spam explosives to the point of being fatal is DEFINITELY not luck, unless it is a stack.

If this is really about the "little guy's" map passing too quickly, try this first:

- Fix the balancer
- Engage kickidlers at the start of EVERY game
- Make sure to always secure and never abandon the base

And see how things turn out.

Nailed and signed 100%.

PS: Siege is grown well. There are only a few things that need improvement:

- balancer needs to be refined

- kick idlers and AFK asshats quicker

- more mods need to keep an eye on all games and remove player who have nothing else on mind than screwing up matches

- prevent this fake name / name change every day and stack bullshit from down south

**Scourge** · 10-28-2015

[X][~FLuKE~][X][;100940]1. Why is a delaying RC cannons for 10 or so minutes such a massive problem?

It would appear to me that people like both super fast and long games. Rocket cannons end stacked matches quickly (or help teams that have been dominated catch up with a little bit of stealth and/or thanks to overly offensive play on the stronger team's part), help small bases grow quickly; and help apply pressure quickly. It's for those reasons that people would say "Hell no", not because they now suddenly can't abuse inexperienced players. Explosives are just as much a tool for the underdog as they are sledgehammers for the type of players you have a problem with.

2. What is the actual gratification of a cheap win?, the best I have seen as a celebration if any is a simple sarcastic seeming "lel"

I don't actually get a lot of satisfaction out of playing an obviously stacked game on either side, though I've done more than my share of play of both types. What I do know is that I don't like protracted farming through basic gameplay, which is what Siege promises late-game on maps like BlueVember, McSwartzly, or BathroomsUltimate, which is why quick wins are preferable to many of us on these maps.

My firm belief is players shouldn't have change to suit the game type if there is an inherent problem where one destroys it

How this reads to me is that you think people should have license to leave their base to go on offense without the consequences quickly proving fatal, otherwise it's a problem because someone doesn't get to enjoy playing his overly offensive preference on a map he might or might not have specifically have been waiting for. The world may not revolve around players with more relative skill or experience, but it definitely shouldn't revolve around players who can't apply simple common sense to attack and defense.

When I said it's not luck that determines how people get in, I didn't mean "look at how skilled I am because of my score", I meant "this defending team lacks awareness and good defensive technique." This of course doesn't apply when one team's fragging ability far exceeds the other to the point that even an attempt at defense is impossible. That to me is the real problem that needs solving, not the ability to steamroll the core in the early game if it's left open.

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**][X][~FLuKE~][X][** · 10-29-2015

Apart from the last part the questions have been answered so I can actually see with my own eyes what the stone wall is all about with this suggestion.

The last part I mean a single player has forced the end of the match, all the others wanted to continue to make it worth playing in the first place, they shouldn't have to mould around that kind of result as it is one person who has decided to end it early, against 16+ players who wanted it to at least be enjoyable which makes it a strong majority against. Just like say 13 players vote for Clarion and one person votes for butchered.... then the map that wins is butchered. That to me is the point I am trying to make, do not confuse it with a single player ending the game at all stages of a match, just the first 10 minutes to allow it to get up and running and make it a fair fight, its a sucker punch, a win but still a cheap shot.

It was never a complaint as such, it was a suggestion due to a result in a pattern of behaviour on the server I have noticed, I don't like how a match is ended in that manner but I have not posted it as a complaint like it has been twisted into. I say the "Leets" or skilled players as that is the only type that RC the core, the average player doesn't think of RC's and bio's the core. Ironic as it is only those I consider skilled players who are objecting.

If I have an opinion I will not mince my words and it will be said in a raw blunt manner, I do not care if that offends anyone. I can have a debate where it may get heated at times like this thread, but it never ends up with a personal animosity towards anyone involved, if someone has a valid and fair argument against my opinion then I will respect that and show I respect it. This thread has a lack of that until the last few posts above.

I will never be bias whether it is my own opinion or not. I will put through any suggestions I feel will make the game a better experience for all classes of players, the problem is most of those I have in mind do not use the forum, no-one can blame or attack me for trying to do that as a selfless suggestion.

The suggestion is clearly disliked with a vengeance, but at least now it is clear on the subject for all to read.

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