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  1. #21
    Administrator SAM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krikor View Post
    Then why wait until things went downhill to have a conversation that should have happened time ago? Why suddenly try to talk to them when they get games in other channels? I mean, they could have too before, but how can they if they are always getting banned and muted all the time?
    There was no waiting. I only started receiving messages recently from the team saying they are struggling with all the drama and that they needed me to help deal with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krikor View Post
    Well just to name one, but it was discussed already, having a ban directly affect IST.
    Unfortunately, when certain players abuse privilege resources, that's what happens. The match could have happened elsewhere. I made this clear from the beginning.

    Quote Originally Posted by snakeware View Post
    yet you guys fail to see the Big part of the problem, you guys dont see your flaws, even with the whole community pointing at them, you dont want to admit/fix your bad decisions. How can you still think everyone is wrong but you SAM.. its just dissapointing.
    If I didn't see the flaws, I wouldn't have multiple conversations with the mod team, explaining why situationally, things may seem or appear unfair on you guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by snakeware View Post
    To be honest I always admired blaze for keeping up with the communty regardless of how he treated some people
    but you cant deny the fact that the community went downhill when banny got moderador, I didnt have anything against him, or have anything personal against him now, I had fun playing with you in the past and I have talked with you in the past and it was always cool and good,i respect what you do for the community, but man, open your eyes..you suck as an admin
    I think banny got a bit engrossed and misinterpreted his role, in trying to make sure everything is fair and he did that with the best of intentions, to ensure everybody had a good time.

    It's been a steep learning curve for Banny and I explained to him and the other mods, over the past days, why they should not override the bot - that it does not matter if the bot picks unfair captains, it is not their executive deicision to make, to reset captains, or teams, where they feel the picks are uneven. The game should proceed, unless the captains both agree or the majority people involved, agree to reset.

    Quote Originally Posted by snakeware View Post
    One last thing, why do you keep saying looking at the PAST wont fix anything, like where else can we look?, we have the past to proof what decisions are bad and what should be change, dont try to hide your flaws on that nonsense phrase that you been repeating all these days "past wont solve anything as there is no way to prove it"
    There is nothing to prove. The fact that I have had various conversations, in the mod and admin channels, on voice etc, should have been enough for you guys to know that we acknowledge that there may be a problem. The issue with bringing up the past is, I cannot verify what happened. Which is why I suggested, that anything that happens going forwards, needs to be reported to me, asap, so that I can investigate and verify both sides of the story and I will take the appropriate action.


    Quote Originally Posted by RTG` View Post
    We have devoted ourselves and contributed to this community for so many years, yet this is the treatment we are getting back. I don't want to be treated like someone special because of that, I want to be treated like a human, simple as that, If you could actually understand and value that SAM. Ruining the IST league for my whole team and trying to talk with SAM was the biggest wound and disrespect I have ever received and people would not understand it unless they put themselves in my shoes.
    I'm unsure as to why this is such a personal issue for you. Your team members were banned because they abused privileges, numerous times. I gave them opportunity to stop but they chose to keep escalating their bad behaviour. I'm sorry but I don't reward bad behaviour with increased privileges.

    The ban did affect an IST match and that is regrettable. I did not take the decision to enforce the ban lightly. But the fact of the matter is, the IST match could have happened in various other servers. I cannot be held responsible for the behavioural consequences of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by RTG` View Post
    We are simply people who interacted with each other for years and years.
    And the hateful way SAM reacted to our community was so toxic that it was out of this universe, we are not aiming to be your competitors, we never will, we simply want to escape the dictatorship that is put out on us, people simply cant take it anymore and try to run away from it. It's been going for so long, how do you expect it to change in a snap Jigsaw.
    I did not react hatefully to your community. The admin and mod team are tired of dealing with children. We are adults, we already have stressful lives, responsibilities and jobs. We don't need that increased tenfold, having to deal with the six of you, that have been removed. You wanted a way out, because apparently, I am a dictator. I facilitated your way out, but I'm still the bad guy. That's real smart man.

    Quote Originally Posted by RTG` View Post
    The thing what frustrates me the most is how incredibly aggressive SAM is, and his misunderstanding of everyone (and me). But now that there is a knife put to your throat you actually start calming down and listening in despair.
    Before this all imploded on Wednesday, where I was speaking to Jigsaw on the pug channel, I had a very long conversations with the mod team, in the days before, about what has been happening. We discussed a number of situations and they raised various events that had taken place.

    In summary, a lot of this is their fault, because they failed to deal with problems from the beginning and they were too lenient. They let friendships with people, that I will not name, appear as though, they were favourable to them. They allowed toxic people to manipulate them into thinking taking action will kill the community.

    The fact that all of this happened so late, was down to the fact that I needed time to investigate. But I didn't have time and none of you gave me time. You all kept escalating matters, the daily dramas continued, to the point where, actually, to me, you were the major disruptors. I couldn't even say two sentences without being interrupted with troll comments, troll emojis or random screenshots from the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cella_V2 View Post
    Also when Skarn got banned for such a tiny thing as not willing to captain and you decide to tear-role him so he cannot talk on the server and defend himself in general, and then be surprised he joins the server to make a statement, banning him for an even longer amount of time. You think a regular pug player will just accept that? If you do, you lacked some serious awareness in this community.
    The reason why we tear role people, is because the bot does not have a block function yet. Therefore, when the tear role is applied, it is best to wait an hour or two to wait for it to be lifted. Or, just message an admin or mod. Not inflame the whole situation and make it worse, by rejoining, spamming, getting banned, spamming servers etc.
    Last edited by SAM; 11-24-2018 at 03:15 PM.

  2. #22
    Killing Spree CoD|JIgSaW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by |uK|chiseller View Post
    That's rich. This community has rarely ever showed any appreciation for the work that was put in. As an admin, the majority of time you get personally insulted for actions that the player brought upon himself. This has been going on for aslong as I have been here with the exception that the recent toxicity has reached a level that is not tolerable anymore. All these personal attacks and childish troll attempts make you all look like spoiled little hypocrits.

    Good on Jigsaw for speaking some sense but solely putting blame on a selected few and brushing everyone else's behaviour under the carpet - or using it as an excuse - won't solve anything.
    Ok,I'll agree with you on the fact that banny is not the only one to blame for all this,but he is definitely the only one who's guilty of STARTING it and i've shown why above,that's undeniable.Other mods and players including myself are responsible for adding fuel to the fire but when it comes to who plays the biggest role in this ....
    Also,toxicity hasn't reached untolerable levels,however the amount of retarded weekly bans has done that

    Quote Originally Posted by SAM View Post

    @CoD|JIgSaW

    I've had long conversations with the Mod teams about how they should be modding. In the Skarn situation, where he didn't want to captain, the first thing that should have happened is, SW should have been banned.

    The second thing that should have happened is, Skarn should have been removed.

    The problem is, every single one of you, keep getting involved in individual ban issues and ganging up on mods, on behalf of you friends. This makes fair enforcing and moderation of rules impossible. We don't have an issue with joking and trolling. But trolling situations where the behaviour is inflammatory, is extremely difficult for us to manage. Because it quickly spirals out of control.

    Good luck.
    Again,you fail to see the core problem.Why in the fk should silverwing be banned ? He said before the pug that he was going to be afk.Him and the other 9 players joined to play a game, they didn't join the fucking military.You expect all 10 people to check the discord server from minute to minute to see if the pug has filled becausee of the fear of getting a stupid ban ? Do you even realise how unpractical that is ?

    If someone doesn't want to or can't captain just let them be and restart the pug,you have 9 other captain choices or in this case 8.When I played in pg and someone didn't want to captain they always restarted,when i played in uk a few weeks ago you also did the same.Tell me how does someone not wanting to captain have any effect on the actual game ? Remember it's a god damn game.

    If I punch one of your friends in front of you in the face won't you react or get involved either ? Of course skaarj and skarn got involved when I got muted,fleece only stated her reason way way after they started spamming the servers like retards.That whole situation could have been avoided if fleece didn't act like a prick and just stated her reason when snake asked why I got muted.Simple.You only see skarn and skaarj trolling,but you don't see fleeces fault.Also I couldn't pm because I didn't even know who did it.I remember in the past you had a rule like mods should state their reasons on the server bans,why is that not the case anymore ? Again,easily avoidable

    Quote Originally Posted by SAM View Post
    We can't improve things by constantly talking about and bringing up the past. I know rules were not enforced correctly, fairly or universally. And I have spoken about this to all the moderators.

    Quote Originally Posted by SAM View Post
    There is nothing to prove. The fact that I have had various conversations, in the mod and admin channels, on voice etc, should have been enough for you guys to know that we acknowledge that there may be a problem. The issue with bringing up the past is, I cannot verify what happened. Which is why I suggested, that anything that happens going forwards, needs to be reported to me, asap, so that I can investigate and verify both sides of the story and I will take the appropriate action.
    At least you acknowledge that rules haven't been enforced correctly, fairly or universally.At least I got that out of you.Don't you think that it would've been reasonable to tell the players that have been banned this too instead of defending these bad bans ? Maybe if for once fleece said "Hey look I banned you unfairly sorri" I can gurantee you I or others wouldn't have acted so hostile but instead all of you were acting like nothing ever happened and expected players to just suck it up.

    I think the argument with the past is the dumbest I've read in the entire thread.If someone raped a baby 10 years ago and the police would find clues about that,do you think they wouldn't investigate further and just brush it off and say :AH WELL CAN'T VERIFY IT SO DON'T BRING IT UP,IF HE DOES IT AGAIN WE'LL GET HIM.Do you really think that you can't form an objective point of view if you have discord logs,screenshots and you can also ask neutral players about those situations.I've presented what happened as objective as I could then I gave you my input,maybe you can do the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by SAM View Post
    In summary, a lot of this is their fault, because they failed to deal with problems from the beginning and they were too lenient. They let friendships with people, that I will not name, appear as though, they were favourable to them. They allowed toxic people to manipulate them into thinking taking action will kill the community.

    The fact that all of this happened so late, was down to the fact that I needed time to investigate. But I didn't have time and none of you gave me time. You all kept escalating matters, the daily dramas continued, to the point where, actually, to me, you were the major disruptors. I couldn't even say two sentences without being interrupted with troll comments, troll emojis or random screenshots from the past.
    If this is their fault then why are the players banned ? :thonk:

    Also great misrepresentation of what happened,for once I tried to actually have a constructive discussion on discord with you and you call it trolling.You said we talked for 2 hours.I remember me you and banny discussing about skarns ban and then banny asked me to find instances of him resetting pugs for no reason.I did exactly that,I was making my point by showing you what had happened in the past through screenshots.Occasionally Shiro was saying something dumb and I was reacting with an emoji to it.How is that trolling ? Get over yourself grandpa...

    Quote Originally Posted by SAM View Post
    The reason why we tear role people, is because the bot does not have a block function yet. Therefore, when the tear role is applied, it is best to wait an hour or two to wait for it to be lifted. Or, just message an admin or mod. Not inflame the whole situation and make it worse, by rejoining, spamming, getting banned, spamming servers etc.
    Tear role has stayed there numerous times for 24 or even more hours,I don't think I 've seen it once being removed after 2 hours as you claim.

    Lastly, banny you haven't adressed any of my points so I'll take that as a victory.I agree that IF everything goes back to normal everyone will act more maturely..

  3. #23
    Dominating RTG`'s Avatar
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    Wrong answers SAM, wrong answers yet again.. I can't believe how blind and ignorant some people tend to be. You may have started listening, but yet again you are not taking into consideration any of the things that the community discussed with you.

    In conclusion SAM, the reality is that you don't care about your community as much as you care about your own ignorant interest and believes. And then you wonder why people are signing off from this community. Even when things went so bad for the community that you "care about so much", you are still defending your ignorant view of the situations, which made people leave in the first place...

    Lesson learned? Unfortunately, no.
    Last edited by RTG`; 11-25-2018 at 01:14 AM.

  4. #24
    Moderator Banny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoD|JIgSaW View Post
    If I punch one of your friends in front of you in the face won't you react or get involved either ? Of course skaarj and skarn got involved when I got muted,fleece only stated her reason way way after they started spamming the servers like retards.That whole situation could have been avoided if fleece didn't act like a prick and just stated her reason when snake asked why I got muted.Simple.You only see skarn and skaarj trolling,but you don't see fleeces fault.Also I couldn't pm because I didn't even know who did it.I remember in the past you had a rule like mods should state their reasons on the server bans,why is that not the case anymore ? Again,easily avoidable
    Fleece stated her reason that time but nobody is talking about that and yet giving shit to the mods/admins. I still remember berserk came in server and calling fleece a whore or something like that, or other players throwing stereotypes at me because I'm Indian? Tell me why is it so important for us to judge everybody's character? If your mum or sister scolded you in the past did you just go and called her a whore? If this community is supposed to be a family then why cannot be act like one? I'm totally fine with friendly banter but straight up attack somebody's character with derogatory remarks/racism/stereotypes is another level of low. People are always giving shit to SAM that how he banned certain area of israel and that hes racist (to jews) yet when I was countless of times faced with racism and stereotypes nobody thought about it?

    Here is when she explained her reason (it was not chis that time, they keep changing names) and yet skarn skaarj still came on spamming servers, discords, interrupting pugs but I'm ready to move on because past is past.


    Quote Originally Posted by CoD|JIgSaW View Post
    I think the argument with the past is the dumbest I've read in the entire thread.If someone raped a baby 10 years ago and the police would find clues about that,do you think they wouldn't investigate further and just brush it off and say :AH WELL CAN'T VERIFY IT SO DON'T BRING IT UP,IF HE DOES IT AGAIN WE'LL GET HIM.Do you really think that you can't form an objective point of view if you have discord logs,screenshots and you can also ask neutral players about those situations.I've presented what happened as objective as I could then I gave you my input,maybe you can do the same.
    Your analogy has too much flaw in it. If a baby was raped 10 years ago, you would expect for an investigation or action or file a report right on that moment of time and not literally after 10 years have past. If the ban(s) were the problem, it should've been taken to a higher authority e.g. SAM or Blaze at that moment of time. You cannot expect to scroll up things and give your judgement. There's a thing called "context". You'd have to literally taken into account everything that happened that moment of time. When SAM banned skaarj and skarn there were 3 situations created. They spammed discord, they spammed pug server, they kept coming in pug and kept interrupting even when they were muted/kicked. This is what you call context. This is why bringing up the past right now won't help at all because theres too many variables to take into account for and takes alot of time to give a fair judgement. Hence, Always forward. We need to move on.



    Quote Originally Posted by CoD|JIgSaW View Post
    Lastly, banny you haven't adressed any of my points
    I said it before and will say it now as well, it is the past and when stories are made up involving past theres a thing called BIAS. and BIAS leads to more drama.

    Quote Originally Posted by CoD|JIgSaW View Post
    so I'll take that as a victory.I agree that IF everything goes back to normal everyone will act more maturely..
    I don't care what you think. It is true that you and couple of other players may not see eye to eye with me but If this is what it takes to have clean start and move forward then so be it.
    Last edited by Banny; 11-25-2018 at 03:33 AM.



  5. #25
    Dominating RTG`'s Avatar
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    It begins...

    Tell me banny, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, when did I ever called fleece a whore??????? And why is fleece still believing that guy and not looking at the actual picture herself?

    The only insults I said to fleece were 2 things - and they were not personal insults, but instead, I insulted her actions. I will attach a short snipped of a long conversation we had in public. If anyone wants to read the full convo, PM me.



    I know, pretty childish stuff I said, but that is the only "bad" thing I said about her. I have never EVER insulted fleece PERSONALLY even in private TDN conversations, there is a difference. I have insulted her actions and ways of handling. Don't get me wrong, that is still wrong and it was my mistake, but it's far more *soft* than calling someone a whore, which is ten times more disrespectful. Trying to say "I called her a whore or something" is still not an excuse because the way you are portraying it is far worse than the actual picture and you know it yourself.

    So back to the story - fleece comes up to me and says "I heard you have been talking smack to me behind my back". Yes, I have been... privately in the TDN group. But never did I ever insulted fleece personally. All I did was explain in the TDN group how fleece saved cheat from being perma banned from IST and I tried to compare it with my situation, because its pretty much the same thing no matter how you look at it, and it goes to show how admins care for each other but not for their community. But banny, being the kind guy he is, decided to tell fleece what I said in private from the TDN group... Basically, leaking private TDN convos - what an honest guy. I don't know what else you said to fleece in context to that and I have no idea what lies you said to fleece to get her so mad, but why are you continuing on backstabbing people?

    I'm not trying to defend myself, but just imagine for a second, being in my position, where you are the weakest team of IST, being raped 100-0, having the next match scheduled and then all the sudden not being able to play that match because someone is feeling power hungry. I never even had the chance to play with my strongest lineup, involving skaarj, where I finally got to play with him and only to get him banned like a dog.

    And also adding fuel to the fire - where I got banned from the servers, from discord, blocked by SAM with no chance to speak to him on DMs. Throwing all the things I did for this community, as little as they are, they matter - Because its not about feeling special or getting free pass, its about respect, if SAM could actually understand it. And like Jigsaw said, this is not military. Maybe next time I need to spread my asshole wider so it would be easier for some people to rape.

    So with that situation going on, some of you might suck it up and deal with it, but for me personally, something snapped in my head and my mind went crazy over it and that was the result. But that doesn't matter, right? Because we are supposed to be in the military.
    Last edited by RTG`; 11-25-2018 at 09:15 AM.

  6. #26
    Moderator Banny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTG` View Post
    It begins...

    Tell me banny, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, when did I ever called fleece a whore??????? And why is fleece still believing that guy and not looking at the actual picture herself?

    The only insults I said to fleece were 2 things - and they were not personal insults, but instead, I insulted her actions. I will attach a short snipped of a long conversation we had in public. If anyone wants to read the full convo, PM me.



    I know, pretty childish stuff I said, but that is the only "bad" thing I said about her. I have never EVER insulted fleece PERSONALLY even in private TDN conversations, there is a difference. I have insulted her actions and ways of handling. Don't get me wrong, that is still wrong and it was my mistake, but it's far more *soft* than calling someone a whore, which is ten time more disrespectful. Trying to say "I called her a whore or something" is still not an excuse because the way you are portraying it is far worse than the actual picture and you know it yourself.

    So back to the story - fleece comes up to me and says "I heard you have been talking smack to me behind my back". Yes, I have been... privately in the TDN group. But never did I ever insulted fleece personally. All I did was explain in the TDN group how fleece saved cheat from being perma banned from IST and I tried to compare it with my situation, because its pretty much the same thing no matter how you look at it, and it goes to show how admins care for each other but not for their community. But banny, being the kind guy he is, decided to tell fleece what I said in private from the TDN group... Basically, leaking private TDN convos - what an honest guy. I don't know what else you said to fleece in context to that and I have no idea what lies you said to fleece to get her so mad, but why are you continuing on backstabbing people?

    I'm not trying to defend myself, but just imagine for a second, being in my position, where you are the weakest team of IST, being raped 100-0, having the next match scheduled and then all the sudden not being able to play that match because someone is feeling power hungry. I never even had the chance to play with my strongest lineup, involving skaarj, where I finally got to play with him and only to get him banned like a dog.

    And also adding fuel to the fire - where I got banned from the servers, from discord, blocked by SAM with no chance to speak to him on DMs. Throwing all the things I did for this community, as little as they are, they matter - Because its not about feeling special or getting free pass, its about respect, if SAM could actually understand it. And like Jigsaw said, this is not military. Maybe next time I need to spread my asshole wider so it would be easier for some people to rape.

    So with that situation going on, some of you might suck it up and deal with it, but for me personally, something snapped in my head and my mind went crazy over it and that was the result. But that doesn't matter, right? Because we are supposed to be in the military.

    Do you even read your own screenshots? She herself said that the when it was none of our faults yet you've been giving us shit for something not even our fault and yet on top of that such derogatory remarks like "licked her pussy" is just your sugarcoated way of portraying bad image of a person. Not to forget that you disrespected chamberly and made a youtube video about it because that's what it has become, let's shame people more and degrade their character as much as we can, right? You clearly do not think with your head. Despite the 1000 times we said we have no control yet you kept harassing and blaming us for everything.

    Do you get why bringing up the past is of no use at all? Because it brings the cycle of drama again? I even said it in my post that mistakes were made and past should be past. Learn to respect if you want to thrive in a community.
    Last edited by Banny; 11-25-2018 at 09:20 AM.



  7. #27
    Rampage Cella_V2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banny View Post
    Not to forget that you disrespected chamberly and made a youtube video about it because that's what it has become, let's shame people more and degrade their character as much as we can, right? You clearly do not think with your head.
    Dont pretend that you are some kind of holy saint dude. You played along in this shaming as much as Berserk did. Atleast take responsibility for your own actions aswell. I have already said it before but I think you are a super slimy person both now and in the past a.k.a. a hypocrit.

  8. #28
    Moderator Banny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cella_V2 View Post
    Dont pretend that you are some kind of holy saint dude. You played along in this shaming as much as Berserk did. Atleast take responsibility for your own actions aswell. I have already said it before but I think you are a super slimy person both now and in the past a.k.a. a hypocrit.
    I wasn't the one who made the video nor was I the one which spread "the source". Yes when it was brought up by someone on voice, I did act cringy because it was inappropriate and even the thought of it was inappropriate aswell but I was never involved in making it viral and whatever it is.



  9. #29
    Rampage Cella_V2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banny View Post
    I wasn't the one who made the video nor was I the one which spread "the source". Yes when it was brought up by someone on voice, I did act cringy because it was inappropriate and even the thought of it was inappropriate aswell but I was never involved in making it viral and whatever it is.
    I dont think `acting cringy because it was inappropriate` and saying `ohhh berserk haha` in voice isnt much better. Just seems like ur masking ur actions to make them look less relevant, but ur equally as guilty.

  10. #30
    Moderator Banny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cella_V2 View Post
    I dont think `acting cringy because it was inappropriate` and saying `ohhh berserk haha` in voice isnt much better. Just seems like ur masking ur actions to make them look less relevant, but ur equally as guilty.
    However you wanna see it. If people had problems from me because of something feeling abit too personal then I've always apologized and tried not to repeat it again. Humak had to ask once and till date I made sure I didn't repeat it again, teddy had to ask once and I didn't repeat it ever again
    Last edited by Banny; 11-25-2018 at 10:14 AM.



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