Banned for supposed toggling

[kud]

As for those log's, as a neutral viewer, it doesn't tell me anything other than that supposedly mousewheel up/down movement while it "unbinded". But since the claim states that, that's the trigger for the exploit, wouldn't it show the string of commands or processes binded to that particular function in the log?

it wouldn't, since tim's mod is only recording ut bindings. most cheats are external programs. the reasoning is there are very few explanations for (repeatedly) hitting an unbound key before firing, and then another unbound key after firing. one explanation is that the mouse wheel is loose, and another is that the key is a bind for an external cheat. the progression of logic which doesn't appear in the thread (but perhaps is being reviewed privately by admins), is to know whether those keys were ONLY being used before and after firing. if the keys are ONLY used before and after firing, then I think that favours the cheating explanation. I'm just clearing up the confusion though. I don't really want to get involved.

[|uK|kenneth]

[|uK|B|aZe//.]

I've seen this infraRed guy play many times and his skill is not even close to be called out as cheater or even accused for me. To me he's just average and what do you mean by this toggling shit? From a well experienced nw player myself I think people are making a mistake between fast weapon switch and toggling. For example, I bind sniper as my top side button on my g400 when I click that bind it switches to sniper and then when I click primary fire before waiting for the sniper rifle to be switched it shoots instantly making it look like I'm doing a one shot kill cause it stops that 1 sec delay when you switch to another wep. I believe it's just a glitch nothing more. As I recall I've seen many many experienced players abusing that glitch. On the other hand, I agree with chis you can't ban without evidence like posting logs (not keeping it to yourself) so if there is a trigger or something fishy a log would be enough to point out the obvious or even a DEMO would be nice.

why are you still visiting these forums "mr so called experienced player" thanks for making me chuckle at the least the "glitch" that you talk about is a zp bug im surprised someone as "good" as yourself uses it..... not.

and infrared please dont play stupid and pretend what a cheat is its getting quite pathetic, someone who has played the game for "12-13" years would know exactly what it is. its not a coincidence that you just happen to use your mousewheel right before you see/shoot and acf before you say anything else I think you might want to consider that this isnt WEAPONS CTF its instagib ctf no chance of switching weapons (god youre dumb)

[InfraRed]

If you've never installed any sort of cheat before or even tried to look them up, how are you supposed to know what toggling is? That's my point. Sure you see these people banned for it but that's all you know about it, usually a log of client x with hooked functions etc etc is all I recall about most of the logs I've seen people get caught with. How should I know if I could care less if someone gets banned for cheating when you just let them walk back in here in 6 months? Big whoop. I mean you've played against some of these guys for years, maybe built some trust with them, then you find out they've been botting their butts off for quite awhile and you're okay with that? Seriously? Most of you people use voice services to talk with people who had no problem botting against you, what a slap in the face a 6 month ban would be, they just pretty much sat there and lied to your face. It's why I would rather not talk to anyone that plays these types of games, not sure how you could even want to be part of a community when you let them stroll back in there like "it's okay, you served your time". I could care less about those who cheat and use the means to do it. All I ever concern myself with is trying to have a decent ini and a video renderer so I don't get ghosted. It's what you should be concerned with too and if you're looking at all these bots to get an idea of what's out there, you care too much about who's cheating or kind of paranoid about it. Unless of course you have some skills in anticheat making, selected in watching or using an aimbot for anticheat purposes or selected in an admin counsel to spot cheaters of such. I've done neither of the three so my knowledge of bots and what is out there is limited. Also, do you know anything about a freescrolling mouse and the mousewheel? I didn't, apparently it can and apparently it did. I would love to see the people I supposedly shot with said toggle, considering one was a teammate that did 0 dmg on. If they were standing still or coming at me head on and you're saying I had to use a toggle to kill them I'm just going to lol about it. Meth seemed to have a demo, get it from him and then match the times I supposedly used said toggle and show the kills. Also the whole log from the time ancient started would be pretty sweet too so I can prove it was happening the whole time, not just in said instances. Well hopefully TimTim is showing anything and everything he has to the admins, I don't need him to respond back to this thread as long as it's handled properly, and if it is they will come to the conclusion that it's coincidence or they'll keep the ban. I'm not worried about it, I have no reason to lie about anything I've done while playing UT in all my years and it's just handled how it's handled. I mean if they ban you when you know you've done nothing wrong what can you do about it?

[Snuggle]

why are you still visiting these forums "mr so called experienced player" thanks for making me chuckle at the least the "glitch" that you talk about is a zp bug im surprised someone as "good" as yourself uses it..... not.

and infrared please dont play stupid and pretend what a cheat is its getting quite pathetic, someone who has played the game for "12-13" years would know exactly what it is. its not a coincidence that you just happen to use your mousewheel right before you see/shoot and acf before you say anything else I think you might want to consider that this isnt WEAPONS CTF its instagib ctf no chance of switching weapons (god youre dumb)

ME... SORRY
BYEBYE

[TimTim]

@InfraRed You need to either work on your reading comprehension or stop playing dumb and conveniently ignoring the things I've said in this thread. I said twice already that I only logged you for about 3 minutes and that those 4 instances of you using your mousewheel before and after firing were the only instances. Witnessing deliberate use of the mousewheel for the 4th time was enough evidence in my eyes to ban you for cheating, obviously. If another admin sees fit to unban you, I won't stop them but I personally don't think it's worth the risk. There are plenty of other servers you can play on. I'm done repeating myself.

[Higor]

From a well experienced nw player myself I think people are making a mistake between fast weapon switch and toggling. For example, I bind sniper as my top side button on my g400 when I click that bind it switches to sniper and then when I click primary fire before waiting for the sniper rifle to be switched it shoots instantly making it look like I'm doing a one shot kill cause it stops that 1 sec delay when you switch to another wep. I believe it's just a glitch nothing more.

Typical ZP bug, another reason it got deprecated, nothing to witchhunt anyone for.

And Demos don't show the player's aim with 100% precision.
I keep repeating myself over, and over, and over, and over, and over... put something on capable of replicating to a spec a player's real aim, if it doesn't get implemented in NN, at least use XC_Spec and instruct mods to use it, V5 is up.

@TimTim, there's a far better way to spot cheaters than this, specially if you can modify playerpawn's code.
- Save the raw mouse axis input before it's post processed.
- Apply a second post processing of said axis into a different rotator.
- Compare on next frame before the player does it's next post processing.
- Add exceptions for valid trigger touches and other serverside repositioning calls.
- If you spot inconsistancies which happen to end up aiming at an enemy, you got your noname cheat.

The one I suggested to anth for ACE consisted in spawning native-only actors:
- Integrity checker before client PlayerPawn
- Integrity checker after client PlayerPawn
- Nullify all extraneous position, input and rotation modifications not happening between those checkers.
- Integrity checkpoints between known, whitelisted non-triggers capable of editing the player's view clientside.
Which works on the same fundamentals.

[Murder]

B|aze, you aren't the first to accuse me and you won't be the last. I've played this game for more than 10 years, probably closer to 12-13. In that time I've been accused of botting ever since I had a high speed internet and could kill some of the better players head on in matches. Kud would remember all the threads in the UT Demo community accusing me and my brother of botting as soon as we got high speed internet. I've been around this long and have never produced a log or anything close that would resemble a cheat. I find it funny how TimTim won't produce the whole log, won't even try to check for a freescrolling mouse to produce a mouse up/down error or anything else. You know why I know he won't check it?? It hurts his evidence, evidence of clean play since I've ever started. You aren't the first to accuse, Demo players that cried Jahosophat, Slipknot, Cyber, Murder (NLA Murder to those who know him), and too many to name in that community but those 4 were all cheaters that got rocked by legit play. Turbo community whiners that I'll mention Karma, Prime, Steel, (he got caught with a bot in a twl match against me haha), Phen, TDN and most of the 44oz crews, and most anyone that I played public games with in turbo, could single handedly win turbo games in pub matches with the noobiest teams against good to average players. Now I've come to this community and all I hear is the same thing. It gets annoying but it's also fun to watch people get angry. I haven't gotten hot under the collar in years about trying to show everyone what legit gameplay looks like. I'm not worried now. I think only 3 instances of people complaining on this site is pretty good, I had one about once every 3 weeks in Turbo community, one every month in the Demo community and even my short stint in the HNC server lgi I had 2 complaints with no evidence either. Atleast you have to give credit to TimTim for trying, but when he sees that a freescrolling g9x laser mouse produces the mousewheel up/down he's going to realize that's all it was and since I clicked in in, I doubt I'm even doing the mousewheel up/down now. So good luck in the witch hunt, I'll bring torches

Ranger, as much as i didn't like you or Spank.

I always knew that you were a clean Player. aside from your Brother "Spank". But back then it was a lot of shit talking, but then again, we are talking 10+ years ago. aside from that, It was UT DEMO lol.

The only reason why people think i cheated was because of an Image that Nobody` who was very close to me back in UTD posted it in the e-forums of the UTDemo community, admitting that i had used the trigger made by "osGB" but it was just an image saying i had used it, and it work. (but did i used it? no1 really knew)

I am not saying i didn't cheat/ or cheated. But never ever got logged with a "cheat" in either Demo or FV. but was banned with out a Logical reason except to keep {-WoC-} dismantle.
Slipknot and Jahosaphat where the only one's that knew the "tweaks" i used long ago b4 anything, and FYI, those 2 were the only "clean players" aside from others.

You 2 get accused of cheating all the time, but let's be real, i know you both are clean. Just don't have those bind's and delete them to avoid issue's with TimTim

TimTim is one of the best Admins that this Game has left. Maybe the binds are to trigger something. Like ie: mousewheelup / is to toggle the trigger on/off mousewheeldown / turn off.

But thats just a player talking.

TimTim is the only help we have in this community, Yes, maybe he made a mistake, but 100% of the time he is right. Just my $0.2 cents

[Snuggle]

well, I honestly feel that TimTim is running the uK servers as if it's his own. Not that I care but lol at the bans hes been placing and then saying he has logs which he is still has not posted. Tim maybe you can hide logs in the globalunreal community but if your banning some one on the uK servers at least post it here I think there is a rule about banning people here btw. Doesn't matter how much persuasive stories you make up believing this person is cheating or how many fans you have that vouch for you, the wise will never believe something without valid evidence to proof it. Just like a court case if you are trying to fight a case and you don't have evidence to back it you then your case is dismissed!

With that being said, I'm not against you TimTim I just want to see if you actually have valid evidence to prove what you are saying then I will respect you as an admin if not then I can keep assuming you are just making up stories and banning players for your own personal satisfaction.

p.s, give it to me hard Blaze xD ( I know your gonna say something to hurt my feelings again)

[InfraRed]

@Murder I understand, I never really did see any logs of you getting caught or anything and it was over 10 years ago. People grow up and people change, I have no idea if you ever really did bot or not. I know someone produced something similar to you admitting of using a cheat or attempting to buy one. Wasn't sure which one it was at this time. That's about all I remember from back then. I didn't cruise the forums back then that much but my brother would have known a little better. I don't have any binds on my mousewheel, I downloaded my ini from Index of ./UT99 ini players/ and it was Ck.zip. I think there was a movement bind on the mousewheel I had to take off and set to the up directional key I changed on my keyboard. Still not sure why it say I was using the mousewheel when I never use it. Used to use it for binds but since I thought my mouse was broken, took them off and didn't have anything bound to it.

@TimTim I read what you posted, I did tell you to post the whole log. I don't believe that is the only time my mousewheel would have went up or down, only when I shot someone. I don't believe that whole heartedly, I understand why you would think it's a cheat as well. You also told me there is no way in the world you are wrong on a mousewheel moving up/down without physically touching it. I'm telling you that is not true, but you won't even look into the freescrolling mousewheel. If you say you did test this, with the same mouse (though I doubt it's just a g9x, it may be any mouse in frees scroll) and it didn't produce it that would be a straight up lie. Take my ini from the link above, bind your movements to your up down key and shake your mouse around while in freescrolling. That or the g9x is a much looser mouse than others in freescrolling. I didn't use any sort of cheat, I've repeated that too but you don't see me acting like a stubborn mule about it and not try to bring evidence to support my case or at least have a conversation about it like an adult. I'm not mad about you banning me, I just think it's odd you don't test half of what you say you do and pass it off as 100% proven tested theory when it isn't, like the free scrolling.