i dont give a fuck who it was

[SAM]

Does it mattrer how many times someone makes the same MISTAKE? a mistake is a mistake unintentional back the fuck off and stop treating him like your damn slave.

When are you entitled to complain? When you start paying Higor for his work and he is your employee during the hours of dev. That's when you have a choice. Either to treat him as a human being or like a complete dirt worker slave of yours.

Either way. He is not here working for any of you so I'd suggest you shut your gobs. Because the fact is it's his good work that you guys play day in day out and Higor contributes a lot more than most of you have been lately and if you don't fix up your attitudes, ferali is right. People will cease to come here. More so the nice people and you'll be left with a million people behaving like ACF. An before that happens. I'll be shutting forums an servers off. So pack it in the lot of you.

[.seVered.][]

Hmmmm.... well, since our development crew ALL have their OWN BetaServers, and do the majority of testing PRIOR to posting to ANY other server... I would tend to think it's not a TESTING condition that the PugServer was 'LEFT' in. If you find the server in that condition, check the server log for the last admin to change the server settings, and then discuss it with them privately. (download the log, search for 'server settings' or 'modified')

But I also agree, this is not an acceptable way to leave the PUG server. A simple batch file reset's the server to it's normal condition, and people should leave the server in the 'ready' state, AS they found it.

[Feralidragon]

To be honest i don't know why it saddens you if everywhere you see people will be complaining and being like 12 year olds all the time. Take an account that this is a gaming forum, so I don't believe people should act all professionals.

Maturity and politeness are not "professional" things, and no one is asking anyone to be a "professional" (not sure how "profession" fits in this discussion either...).

Anyway, let's go back 1,5 to 2 years, back then WildCard was still doing a few things for Siege. I remember that he would release some version, it would have some sort of game breaking bug and the users would actually understand that no one is perfect and then he managed to fix said bugs, and everyone ended up happy.
Then WildCard stopped developing Siege for a long while and there are still no signs of a near new release (at least publicly), so what happened is that we had a series of "coders" that "attempted" to fix the remaining Siege issues while also adding something new.
Let be completely honest here: since WildCard left, none of them was nearly skilled or knowledgeable enough to even actually understand the basics of the engine, let alone Siege itself, and the proof is right there in the front of your eyes: messed up code, lag and a multitude of bugs which are easily fixed for who actually knows what he's doing. However, such people existence was rare even back then, and even more rare nowadays.

I was asked to fix it in a few occasions, however back then I didn't have time to (due to my other mod), but still provided a few fixes and explained how things work to a few, and also noticed some of the mess in that gametype due to the latest modifications, however I only pointed the most obvious ones and never mentioned the rest to not demotivate and respect who was actually trying to improve and fix it.

Then, years later Higor pops up, and surprisingly he actually knows what he's doing and knows the engine very well, and was able to see the same mess and started to propose fixes and optimizations for them, and the only thing I actually had to stomp my foot in was that he was trying to use goto statements in some of them, and fortunately he listened and got rid of them in his code.
Also he created a few discussions to check the best possible solutions for some problems and exploits, which shows he was open to suggestions and "better ideas".

Now, he's actively developing Siege along with other things, and it happens that he may do some mistake, new bugs may arise, things may get unbalanced, etc, etc, and for some reason the overall community is not patient anymore. Despite the history of coders trying to improve Siege and which were somewhat "rookies" at it (sorry, but it's the truth), once someone more "pro" at it attempts to give it a more serious and clean development, the community seems to go mad every time things do not go as planned or some mistake is made in the way.
If he's repeating the same mistakes, instead of treating him like a "slave" (SAM could not find a better word for it), then handle it privately and calmly and make a plan for a better and more organized way to avoid these, simple.
Now, complaining alone and threatening in public are not going to help at all, besides being the worse show of authority I have seen in my life, when this guy can actually backfire by going to another community or clan, do a much better siege and let you guys eat the dust while he gets his own siege more popular than yours, then the roles would be reversed (and interesting to watch).

Also, not only I, but some other devs who actually know the engine well are still in UT because of the community alone and nothing else, since compared with other gaming communities, the UT community was always far better, more mature and patient, so it was more pleasant and "rewarding" to actually *waste* time to develop for such, even if we ended up not actively playing the game.
However, right now, you're no different from those bad gaming forums with everyone complaining and throwing rocks at the devs for every change and mistake, so basically your pushing the devs out of UT into other newer games or even UDK itself (or other SDK), since there's nothing else worth the time anymore (even the number of players dropped dramatically over the years, can you imagine how "fun" it is having the hard work to do something for just a few players? And how fun it is when you know these few players will still take a crap on you any time of the day anyway?).

Do you even know how much time it can take for a dev to fix even the smallest bug? It can take a few minutes, to hours to even weeks.
I had a bug in graviton for instance during development, a small online bug with its beam. It took me a week to fix it. Now imagine the scalability of effort for making things work for Siege as a whole, and knowing it will get stressed until juice comes out of it.... not easy.

Also you do not know if blaze had to do something in those 80 minutes i mean, he could've been late for work or an appointment. I mean i could've done something in those 30 minuted wasted and also what if it turned out to be a dead pug. Those 30 minutes would have been wasted over a simple thing to do. But wouldn't you be pissed also if someone messed up your server and forgot to put it back how it was? Especially when the server is full, then you lose all the activity in matters of seconds?

He was literally wasting 80min in a damn game, I am pretty sure whoever can spend 80min in a game has nothing else more important to do during that period, otherwise something would be very wrong with his persona.
Also, if someone messed my server making it empty for one night, but because the said guy was doing something useful before but then forgot to put it back for whatever reason, no, I wouldn't get mad at all. I mean, just stop Siege development so the server can be always on, and I give it 2 years tops to die out with lack of players with all the games coming out in the meanwhile giving something new and fun.

Just look at SLV, it was the most popular mod around for years and was constantly fighting with the uK Siege server for the first places, and from the moment development was stopped, it died about 2 years later. Same with many other mods I have seen so far: Zark, Funnel, MH, and the list goes on and some mods are dying as I post this.
Also, if you try to host an old Siege server, let me know how many players you can get there. My bet is that even if you could redirect all Siege players to your server, they would leave, because they already know the old and is boring for them (and I already saw this happening with another mod).

So again, keep it up. The last somewhat popular community that did pretty much the same died in about a year, so if it happens here too, don't blame the dev, blame yourselves, you're the ones with with the power to either pressure or support, and both have very different outcomes. It's in your hands now.

Anyway, this is the last post I make in this thread (and probably one of the last ones of all) since apparently no amount of discussion will make you open your eyes until the day Higor comes and says "I'm done, bye", and even then you will probably be just like the other community that died out and just trash talk in his back.
Damn, how I enjoyed the old community from years ago...

[Moskva]

Guys, no need to get acid, I'm sure this can be discussed without insulting anybody, and this means EVERYONE, Higor, BlaZe, or whoever. The base for any agreement is respect, if we dont show respect, is more likely that we wont get an agreement on anything now or in the future and thats obviously not the idea, since we're a community, so calm down and keep it civilized

[SilverWing]

<----Rookie :P

I tried my best to solve problem but im glad Higor came to help out!

[Feralidragon]

Guys, no need to get acid, I'm sure this can be discussed without insulting anybody, and this means EVERYONE, Higor, BlaZe, or whoever. The base for any agreement is respect, if we dont show respect, is more likely that we wont get an agreement on anything now or in the future and thats obviously not the idea, since we're a community, so calm down and keep it civilized

Funny, in 3 pages the only guy I saw really insulting (and heavily) was Blaze.... food for thought...

[Moskva]

Thats not the point, its pretty much a "reap what you sow" situation, and based on that, lets stop with the hate and focus on the good things, if theres something wrong or to improve, lets talk about it like mature people (even when it doesnt look like it 97% of the time), and not only for this thread, its tiring to see only complaints and shitshows in the forum

[SAM]

Well the old community was when Mr short guy wasn't suffering from so much small man syndrome. Seriously. You're 22 start acting your age and sort out your anger issues and big headed shits. At least keep it off the forum.

[|uK|B|aZe//.]

im not even gonna bother replying to your stupid comments on a forum theres a lot I could say but just because your the "older" brother it gives you the right to put me down in front of everyone, with your friends, on here, wherever, kudos. I dont know what shocks me more you actually knowing my age or the above.

lastly I would just like to add, I have asked nicely plenty of times and it has been ignored its not the fact that it was a mistake it was left with the mapvote setup and EDITED so that I couldnt load any other versions of siege meaning all the versions of siege on the mapvote were gone. dare i say anymore.

p.s. ferali always liked you always will but please stop blowing shit out of proportion i was merely asking for things to be put back to how they were after testing sessions or whatever that was being done, its not hard to do, and yes it is annoying because the many times ive had to set the server back to how it was is when im either going out and im tight for time, and an example of when i lost an hour trying to get the server to stop runaway looping because SOMEONE had uploaded a siege ini file while keeping the server running and then deciding to restart the server after it finished uploading which caused this problem, meant the server was down for another day as well, meaning interest in pugging and mlsg 3 was hindered, maybe not a lot but could have been avoided. Also i did not mention any names in my first post of this thread so maybe stop making assumptions as well

[Feralidragon]

Well, fair enough, probably I blew it out of proportions and for that I apologize (it's just it's been months that this community is declining into what I see everyday in other bad gaming forums worldwide with players not giving due value to the people they have around).
It sounded to me Higor had something to do with it, so are you telling me it wasn't him, or you don't know yourself?
Also, look at your first and second post and let me know what kind of info and idea you gave to pretty much everyone and how would you reply yourself...

Anyway, if that happened so many times, a few "pro tips":

- Backups: an ini file is something extremely tiny yet extremely important for a server to run properly. So if you have "that" right setup already, just backup those files and every time you need to put the server to the state it was before you just have to upload a few kb and restart the server.
The same goes for testing: if you have ini files already setup for testing things up, do the same thing.

- Organization: you have one of the biggest communities around, so you ought to get some organization on who has exactly what kind of access to what (if you don't have already).

- Communication: obviously the lack of communication shows here with who did what, when, why and whatnot. If someone is doing something wrong, talk to them privately.
You say above that SAM is putting you down in front of everyone in a public forum, however: you're doing the same exact thing! Just look at the very post that started all this, it's yours! For me what you claim SAM did as the "big brother" you did as the "uK main admin", so the same applies to you. If you don't want to be "put down" in public, treat the rest of people the same way.